The Wize Way

Episode 192: Meetings, Rhythms & Remote Teams

• Wize Mentoring for Accountants and Bookkeepers

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Remote work sounds like the dream but without the right communication rhythms and cadences, even the best accounting teams fall apart.

In this episode of The Wize Way Podcast, Dani and the Wize Team break down the real secret to making remote and hybrid work actually work and it all comes down to communication rhythms and cadences.

✅ Why senior staff thrive remotely but juniors struggle (and what to do about it) 

✅ The simple meeting cadences that keep remote teams connected and accountable 

✅ How to onboard remote staff without losing culture or productivity 

✅ The open Zoom room strategy that replaces the office "water cooler" instantly 

✅ How to handle data security, trust, and time zones without the overwhelm

If you're a firm owner trying to attract top talent, reduce staff turnover, and build a team that works seamlessly from anywhere in the world, this conversation is a must-listen.

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3. Work with Jamie and our mentors for 8 weeks - Build a custom business plan for your firm - Apply here

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to The Wise Way, the show for accounting and bookkeeping firm owners who want more time, profit, and freedom in a business that can run without them. I'm Brett Ward, your host, and each week we deep dive into the real stories, proven strategies, and battle-tested tools from successful firm owners just like you. Our wise mentors want to share their journey of how they've scaled and systemised their way to freedom so you can too. If you're stuck in the grind or you're ready to scale smarter, this is your blueprint. Let's get into the episode.

SPEAKER_13:

Hello everyone. So today today's a little bit different. I mean, we're none of the mentors are here because they are currently in the Philippines. They're on a beautiful island called Baraccaye. Um, Selena, did I say that properly?

SPEAKER_11:

You nailed it.

SPEAKER_13:

Awesome. Yeah. So we have our um yearly like wise workshop. And we had one earlier in the year, and that was in Sydney, um, which was which was awesome. And then yeah, at the moment they're in Barockeye for for the next one. So yeah, it'll just be sort of us, a really intimate group today, um, which is great. So we probably won't worry about breakout rooms. We'll just we'll go through the topic, and then if you've just got any questions throughout it, just yeah, feel free to jump in and ask any questions that you have. Um, but yeah, with today's topic, it is about work from home versus in the office. And I'm really trying not to like take take one side over the other. I'm trying to like keep an open mind. Um, but I do have a bit of research that I'll sort of start with. Um, for anyone who knows me, they you'll know that I do like to to get a bit of information and and start with a bit of research. But so what I found is that 50% of accounting professionals work remotely at least part of the time, so either hybrid or fully remote. Um, and around 38% prefer fully remote work. And then 29% of accounting firms have adopted a fully remote model. Uh and then for the accounting industry specifically, uh research found that 55% of accounting professionals prefer a hybrid model post like pandemic. So yeah, once that sort of hit, that's when when things started changing. Um and then lastly, in the accounting industry, 45% of accountants use remote work to improve diversity and inclusion efforts within the firms, whereas 70% 72% believe remote work improves work-life balance. So bit of a thing there. Um, but again, I'm trying not to like choose work from home over in the office because I know that there's pros and cons for both sides. Um, and I would like to explore both of those. Oh, good morning. Oh, hello, Paulina. I just saw you. Um, yeah, so I guess if we kick things off with, you know, the work from home, that seems to be the the biggest thing at the moment that we're finding candidates are interested in. And then, yeah, so we'll we'll look at the pros of that first. And what we've found is that uh there is less distraction because uh you're sort of you're working by yourself in the office. Hopefully you're in an actual private office rather than in an open space. Um, but yeah, it means that you can sort of get in there, do the work, and there's no distractions unless you've got you know a cat or a dog running around. Um there is it is greater like with the time management as well. This is sort of a pro and con in terms of the time management. You can obviously be more more productive, which is great, but it uh if you go to the con part of things, it also does mean that you could probably possibly overwork because you just sort of go, oh, it's eight o'clock at night, but I'll just quickly jump online and and answer that email and and do that sort of stuff, um, which is not good. So yeah, you you do still want to keep a work-life balance. Um, Raul, can I ask, how long have you been working from home like now?

SPEAKER_10:

Well, it's been like uh almost five years. Yeah. You know, like probably with with the most of the clients that I have speak with about the this topic, it's like a little bit understanding of their market and how they feel like they can be like like I don't know, more profitable for them or uh more suitable for their time and their schedules. So it is I really like this topic because for some of our clients have uh they're experimenting for the first time this migration of being remote and also for others like having an offshore people. Yeah, yeah, five years.

SPEAKER_13:

Yeah, that's exactly right. And that is the other thing. Um, if you do have a remote office, you're not you're not paying rent for an actual space. So that that is a bit cheaper as well. Um, but it also means that you don't just have to hire someone from your local area. You can hire people all over the world if you want to, just like we do here at WISE. We have oh Selena, do you know how many people we have around the world now?

SPEAKER_11:

Uh so we're working with in nine countries. And then yeah, so that's Mexico, Chile, Philippines, Brenton is Ireland, and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_13:

Yeah, so like nine countries. Um, and it it does work, like even with the time zone differences, as long as you've got some sort of crossover, it definitely works. Um, and that's obviously for offshore, but yeah, even hiring someone locally, but having them work, it doesn't have to be fully remote, but just even a hybrid model, um, just to sort of get them to be able to to get to have that work-life balance is really important. Um, I can feel myself going more on the pro of work from home. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna um move on quickly. Uh, but yeah, so then with the with the cons side of things, it can be quite isolating at times because you don't have people around you. Um, you know, you just you can sort of be focused on your work the whole time. And there's no what's that saying, like a water cooler chat and everything? There's none of that. Um and then the other thing is sometimes, and Paulina, you and I were talking about this the other day, about you could just be sitting there for hours and not even realize, like you don't even stand up to to go to have a bit of a break. You're just sort of focused on your work and you just you keep going. And that's definitely not a good thing. I think they say that you you should be standing up and walking around every half an hour. And I don't know about anyone else, but I definitely don't do that. Um, even with this call, this call is gonna go longer than half an hour. Um, but yeah, it's just that is a that's definitely a a con. Um but then yeah, does anyone have any like questions or comments about this before we move on to the uh the other side of things? Like, has anyone found uh working from home or has anyone adopted the work from home uh thing? Mina, I think you do you do you have some staff that are working from home at the moment?

SPEAKER_09:

We're probably about 50-50, um, Danny. Um it probably made more sense learning from what we did that maybe the s it's not for everybody. So the senior staff are perfectly fine um working from home and and functioning. I think some of the junior intermediate, it's probably something they they need to work towards because in the beginning it's almost like, well, you just made it harder. Like, how do we help you when you have lots and lots of questions and you know it's not easy to facilitate that sort of um that sort of discussion? But I think for senior staff they're perfectly fine. Um, and yeah, that's that's my comment to it, Danny. I think the the seniority needs to be taken into account as well.

SPEAKER_13:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because it is, you know, especially when you need to brainstorm and things like that, it is easier when you're in an office. Like you can still definitely brainstorm online and everything, but there's something different about being with someone right there next to you when you can just sort of go through things and ask questions and all of that. That is definitely easier. Um, and yeah, Mina, like you mentioned about the senior staff being at home, that's okay. But with the juniors, it they will have a lot more questions. So being in the office is a lot easier. Um and then so that that's one of the the things with working in the office. Um, so we touched on the you know, brainstorming, so the collaboration and everything, that's always a a plus. Um, the other thing is also culture. Like, yes, you can still have a great culture when you're working from home, but nothing beats, you know, that culture, that environment when you've got a team of people together, especially when you've got Christmas parties, like you know, we've got Christmas coming up, um, end of financial year parties, or even Friday lunches. I don't know if anyone does that here, but I know there are a few firms who will do like shared lunches um or afterwork drinks or whatever it is, that sort of stuff you can't really do over Zoom. I mean, you can, but it's not the same. Um, we do try though. I know with WISE we've got Raul and I trying to coordinate this, but we do like culture catch-ups where we basically jump on a Zoom call like this and we play games and everything. Um, but yeah, there is something different about it being like in person. And even today, with with everyone heading off to Barocai, you know, it's gonna be a whole different experience. I know that when I met um some of my clients back in Sydney at the start of the year, there was definitely something different. And I felt like the connection definitely got stronger because you you are seeing them face to face. So yeah, working in the office is also it's it's it's becoming one of those things where yes, candidates want to work from home, but I think eventually, don't quote me on this, but I feel like eventually, there's gonna hit there's gonna come a point where some candidates are going to miss being uh in the office as well. Um and that's why you know hybrid is also a really great option because it it means that they can work mostly in the office, but maybe one or two days a week they can be at home. Um Roel, before you were working from home, you're working, I'm assuming, full-time in the office, or was it hybrid?

SPEAKER_10:

Yeah, full time. Well, hybrid, like kind of a hybrid. Yeah, because it was like in an other office and I and I still like having my my office in my home. But yeah, you know, I I I really like that topic of the culture, and and I would like to highlight it that in this specific topic, like the people are part of the team. So even that they are like far, far, far away, the people still part of the team. They like to be integrated, they like to be like feel like they're part of the a big, big project. So it probably implementing a culture when when the environment is a little bit more like you know, like we are together and and they know what are they doing, and they're doing for any specific reason the work have a meaning for them. So it is easier that they can identify with with our propos. Uh it's the thing that I that I like to be like part of a big project. And yeah.

SPEAKER_13:

Yeah, absolutely. Um you do definitely feel like you've accomplished something a bit more when you're when you're in the office and you've you've worked on a big project with the team. Um, you can sort of see the results.

SPEAKER_10:

Well, it's it's different definitely because being at home, it's like you know, you have your computer like 24 hours, and sometimes that we need like something origin or something like special to do. Like I I like to be like probably sometimes at night, or it's something that I like to do also. So it is like really particular. It's not all the employees, and it's not we're not going to find that easy with with most of the employees that hey, take a meeting at at midnight because it's uh the time that everybody's uh it's in the same time, but you know, like it it is about like uh like when when we are hiring, and and I think this is important, and this is how why you should be talking about this, because in the hiring process we need to identify these uh criteria or these personalities of the people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_13:

Yeah, absolutely. There are gonna be candidates out there who tell you that they can absolutely work from home, but their productivity is not gonna be great. Um, some people need to have that, not micromanagement, but just that constant, like just someone sort of around their area. You know, we never promote micromanagement, that that's not good. But yeah, there are definitely some personalities who just need to have a manager there that they can sort of call on or whatever it is, um, or who might get a bit distracted if they are working by themselves. Um yeah, and that's why we always say do do timesheets, make sure you've got your timesheets going, especially for your remote staff, um, so you can sort of see what their how their progress is and everything. Um, but yeah, with the in the office side of things, one of the I guess the the cons is the commute to work. Um, and that's what we're actually finding. And Selena, being in the Philippines, there is a lot of traffic on the road.

SPEAKER_11:

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_13:

And that's that's what we're finding. We're finding that candidates are wanting to to move away from that. Um, because we've had, and I'm I'm not exaggerating here, we had one candidate who said that she traveled six hours to work and six hours back. Um, and if she didn't, there was like she was she was the breadwinner, that's what she called herself. And if she didn't work, there was no money coming in. Um and it's it's really sad because she could absolutely do her job from from her home, uh, but um her employer said no. So uh yeah, there's definitely um cons when it comes to commute, even even in Australia. Um, you know, the traffic is getting worse and worse. In Victoria, personally, like I remember when I was working in the office, I was literally I was supposed to be 13 minutes away from from the office, but it took me 25 minutes to get to work every day, just because it was that, and everyone would know this, that stop start, um, which is which is not fun. Um, so I do have a question for everyone. Uh who, and if you can just raise your hand, who has um implemented some sort of work from home or like room like hybrid model in the office?

SPEAKER_03:

Edit, you've got yeah, Mina, yeah.

SPEAKER_13:

Yeah, so everyone, Peter, I know you have because you've got you've got offshore staff, so you've definitely um yeah, so there's there's quite a few who have implemented that. Um and so my my question for the firms who don't who haven't implemented that yet, what are your what are your I guess has like what are you hesitant about? And this is great because you've got a whole room here of people who have implemented and who have worked with this. So this is your time to to get those those answers that you know that might make you go, okay, well, maybe I should be looking into this. Um Natasha, do you have any remote staff or we don't have any?

SPEAKER_12:

We don't have any remote staff, we've just got all our staff in a central office. Um obviously during the pandemic we did have to adapt and evolve to that. Um I did find there was abuse, which probably really turned me off wanting to do that, knowing that staff weren't doing the right thing when they were at home. Um we're still ticking on the timesheet, which then made it very difficult to manage. Um, and data security has probably been my greatest concern. How can I control the security of my clients' information, if that information is distributed all around the country or the globe? I mean, uh so I guess from that, you know, I'm responsible for that. Um, so it's been something I've been hesitant about um sort of going into. And I found that the team all in one place and an office too. We've been able to collaborate and brainstorm and come up with things and support one another. If someone's stuck on something on the phone, you can hear that and you can then jump in straight away and give them a hand. But if they were just a hind, they'd probably be a little bit more, I'm in a loose end, what do I do? So um we are running a small team, there's only three of us. So that said, you know, I don't have a team of a hundred that I'm having to manage, which would probably be a different position if I had a larger team.

SPEAKER_13:

Yeah, no, that this is great, Natasha, because this is a a great time for for you to sort of get those answers. Um does anyone have any recommendations before I jump in? Does anyone have any recommendations on the security side of things on data? I mean, I'm gonna pick on you again. Uh and Peter, you can both you can both answer.

SPEAKER_09:

Um Tasha, for like those concerns, they're definitely something that we um had to walk through in that journey as well. And for the size of the firm, it it probably makes sense you can sort of maintain um, you know, an in-office sort of team. But you know, as you're scaling and you breach that sort of tend, etc., it's almost that the market's probably gonna push you out of your boundaries that you're gonna have to sort of entertain that. But data security, um, the same problems exist in office and work from home. So I'm sure you, as the practitioner, take your laptop and you've got some sort of home office or setup, etc. Um, we implemented practice protect um and then locking down all those programs, and then you can go a step further. Like they've got device management now, um, they've got app management as add-ons and things like that. So we found that all of those things you'd have to, you know, it's as easy for a team member in the office to click on a phishing scam and then expose you to all of those sort of issues as well. So um you've you you you address it both the same. So the fact that they're working from home, um, you still take the same approach app management, device management, and cybersecurity management.

SPEAKER_12:

Yeah, no, that's great um feedback. I mean, we do use practice project, have had it in place for probably five or six years now, so we have definitely had that in place for a while. Um, I was thinking more of the case like in our office, no one takes laptop time. So you're at work, you can access those things, you step out of the office, you can't access them. So you can't access something on a Saturday afternoon, it's just not possible. Um, also, you know, I know the office is locked at the end of the day, computers are switched off, all of that, the passwords are all secure. Um, whereas if they're operating from home, I don't know who is else is in the home and I don't know who's walking through the place, I guess they're the kind of concerns I'm like, well, I don't have that level of control. And that's because I'm a control freak. So I absolutely respect that I probably need to change some of my thinking. But I guess when I know I'm responsible for this, how do I ensure that, you know, when someone's working remote, that that data is still safe?

SPEAKER_09:

Yeah, yeah, 100%. If you took that mindset and tried to apply it to a team of 10, 20, or 30, it's not going to work. There's gonna be ways that have to evolve.

SPEAKER_08:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08:

Yeah, just say one more thing that um every year when we renew our cybersecurity insurance policy, which um you know brings to our attention how relevant it is, we go through that policy and then um we then have our internal policy, our systems and processes. So um we get the whole team together for an hour, we go through cybersecurity, we go through, you know, what are the breaches, what's you know, what sort of fishing is out there. Um and then we'll design the policy to you know and capture as much as policy as much as possible so that the staff are completely aware and across all the issues of cybersecurity, and then I'll get every staff member to sign off on that policy. So you know, I'll send it out through Fuse Sign, get everyone to sign off on it. You know, they've read the policy, we've had the meeting, we've done the best I possibly can to prevent any cyber breach. On the back of uh using practice protect and everything else.

SPEAKER_03:

That's good. Thanks, Peter. And Mina.

SPEAKER_13:

And there is like there is tracking software that you can put on the laptops as well. And yeah, I mean, you never want to use it for micromanagement use. But yeah, there's there's definitely software that if a USB gets inserted, that you'll get notified. There's things like that. But then I do have clients who say, yeah, but what if someone takes a photo with their phone? Um and that to me just comes down to trust, basically. Like we, and not to try and sell wise talent or anything, but we do, we personally have a really, really um a 47-step hiring process to make sure that we we are finding the right person who who has that integrity. Um, because the last thing you want is to hire someone and not trust them. Because that relationship is never going to work, regardless if they're onshore or offshore. Um, you you need that trust if you're hiring someone either remotely or hybrid. Um but yeah, Natasha, does that sort of help a little bit? I mean, I know there would still be heaps of hesitation and everything, but just a little bit of clarity, a bit more or yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_12:

I think the trust point is absolutely the critical part. And um and I guess, you know, if I had a great team member and there was a need for them to say, you know, can I look to a hybrid version of one and I'm and we'll build that trust and rapport a relationship, I would have probably no hesitation in that because I already know the merit of that person. Asking me that I would be cautious with the complete stranger, I don't know who you are, I don't know who you know your ethics, I don't know anything about you. Um and then I also wonder, and this might be something someone who's been through this before could provide some um advice and support is how many, I mean I'm new to wise, by the way, I need something up yesterday, so this um um agreement as they come, um, is how do you do the training, how do you teach them all your systems, your processes, the way you do things, the the many amounts of the sign, the all of the bits and pieces, at least if I'm in the office, I can have them sit next to me and we'll just go through all of it. Um I I would love to hear how do people uh onboard remote staff where they're not with you and how do you manage them and support them and make sure that they're learning and are familiar with your systems and all of the bits, like there's just so much when the new person starts.

SPEAKER_13:

Yeah. Um, Edit, did you you've got a good answer?

SPEAKER_03:

Did you want to take on this question? Yeah, um I mean we've we've got more of a hybrid model now.

SPEAKER_02:

We do both. Uh some people just prefer to work at work, and then we had people who worked fully remote, and after two years they said they were going insane and they wanted more human interaction. So kind of the one-in-between seems to work best for us. But I've done quite a lot of onboarding and kind of sharing knowledge via videos, so it kind of started off with I think probably somebody asked me three times how to do the same thing, so I got a little bit annoyed, and I was like, okay, next time I do it, I'm just going to record it. And it just in the end turned into this fairly chunky video library. But literally, I'm in a position now where I've got a new person starting, and I'm not saying don't be personal, be personal, and you know, have meetings with them, but I can just say it's that video or that video or that video. Um, took a while, but actually it worked really well for us. And particularly the younger generation seem to prefer videos to manuals or you know, reading books or whatever. So yeah.

SPEAKER_10:

Yeah, especially now that you we have these tools like Loom, and uh, you know, sometimes the questions are so repeatable, or the people can just review it again to answer the same questions. So it those those those things help a lot for them.

SPEAKER_13:

Absolutely. Does anyone else have any other tricks that they use, like any tips on other things besides videos?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I mean, this one's not necessarily onboarding, but um you know the concern you raised about like somebody just being there and giving them a hand and whenever they need them. So one of the financial services firms near us used this model where they literally body people up or call it whatever you want, and they open a Zoom link in the morning and both people work, but if they need to ask a question or you know, just need some human interaction, they can literally just talk to each other because the connection is open all day. And I had quite good feedback about that from people who were there.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, yeah, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_13:

And I I yeah, I've got a client who does that as well. They've just got a um I think it's Zoom as well, just a Zoom room open all day for eight hours, and yeah, they can just constantly talk to each other.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_13:

Um, Christopher, that's a good one as well. I saw your last one, I was like, yeah, that was good. But um about the SOPs and now the checklists. Um did you want to go into a bit more detail about that?

SPEAKER_07:

So I think for new onboarding, kind of like what Danny was saying, she has the 47-step process for recruiting. And being a wise member, it's always about the SOP standard operating procedures and checklists. By developing these, you kind of free up some of your time and knowing that these steps and processes will get accomplished um by the right person doing them. So it kind of frees up some of your thinking and um ensuring that the right person is doing the right job.

SPEAKER_13:

That's good. Thanks, Chris. Um, Stefka, I saw you somewhere and now you've disappeared. Oh, there you are.

SPEAKER_03:

Um did you have something? Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, a couple of things. Uh we're I I like to come to the office, but oh, my people are remote. I have people in the Philippines. So what we did was um we have a different level of um access to our information. So anybody that is starting in the Philippines, um, we use LastPass. They cannot see any of the passwords, they can still log in and get the information. They only have access to, let's say, to the bank accounts viewing only. So we have different levels of access and no access to any anything that has to do with payroll, with uh anybody's bank information, uh personal information. We have um we use SharePoint for our uh um for our files, so they only have access to working papers and whatever they need to do the work, but nothing that sensitive. And um so so yeah, so we split the information into um people that can work onshore that that have full access to payroll and whatever needs to be done. Uh LastPass is great with that, they can still log into whatever they need, but they actually don't see the passwords. And as far as as far as um training and onboarding, yes, it does take time, but uh we find that we use carbon for our checklists and uh practice management. And uh we have over time, it it doesn't happen instantly, but over time we've built all the processes and the offshore people can bring a pile up to like 90 to 95 percent completion without us getting yes, you have to show them the first month or two how we do things, but it gets easier and easier and better. It does seem like a lot of work and overwhelming at the beginning, but uh there are ways, and you just do a little chunk each time and it will work eventually.

SPEAKER_08:

Stephanie Steffi, can I just ask you a quick question? Just with the last pass, um, you know how you can set it so that they can't see the password.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes.

SPEAKER_08:

Um, yeah, I've I've had the situation where I've done the same love last password, it works exceptionally well. But then I found that we did some testing and I and I also did some testing in the Philippines where it came up and you couldn't see the password, but then depending on your Google settings, if it came up, you could actually then save the password within Google. Is there a workaround for that?

SPEAKER_01:

Or no, uh, we haven't found it, but I don't give anybody remote access to anything that they can do any damage. Viewing accessibility on everything, yeah. So we have we split our even LastPass, it has like different uh folders in there, so uh they only have access to viewing only for anything, they cannot process transactions of any kind for any of our logins.

SPEAKER_08:

Yeah, so they log in through the say that say they're logging in through Google Chrome, but then it's depending on what they got switched on with Google Chrome, sometimes it'll pop up and say, Do you want to save this password? Even though they can't see it, and if you say yes, then it then it saves it, it saves the real password in the back end of Google Chrome. But I don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

Anyway, yeah, yeah, we couldn't find out the way around that, so it's just access. So we we limit the access to information. Okay, all right, thanks. Nothing, yeah. That's the only workaround.

SPEAKER_13:

Yeah, I think that's where trust comes into it again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Um and yes, Natasha, does that help a bit more? Hopefully it does. Yeah, no, that's been great.

SPEAKER_12:

Um we do have a lot of like the SOPs and checklists, I do have a lot of that in place already. So um and I like the idea of yes, if you've got the open Zoom room, that's certainly something I hadn't thought of. I sort of thought, you know, dialing in and out multiple times during a day, but yeah, it makes sense just to have it open and may not be any activity, but if they need some help, then it's there and open. So that's certainly a new idea I haven't thought of. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_13:

Um yeah, no worries. And it's like onboarding, yes, it's always going to be easier in person, but nowadays there's so many checklists, and I I've got checklists as well if anyone needs it, and Tasha, if you if you'd like a copy, or if anyone else likes a copy as well. Um, it does actually go through onboarding someone in the office and remote as well, just so that you can see what the slight differences are. Um yeah, so more than happy to send that across. If just you can just put it in the chat if you'd like a copy, and I'm I can send that across. Um, the final one I want to talk about, and I guess we've already covered it throughout the the discussion, um, but is is the hybrid model of working one or two days a week. Um so the biggest thing that I'm finding nowadays is that clients are they're definitely open to it. A lot of clients are wanting, you know, they they're wanting their staff to work at least three months or even six months, like even past probation before they actually adopt that model. Um and Natasha, like you were saying earlier, because you don't want to just hire a stranger and be like, yeah, you can you can work from home. I I know nothing about you, but go for it. Um, yeah, so there are definitely clients who are sort of going, well, you need to work in the office, um, even just for training. Um, like Mina, you were saying earlier about the junior staff, like having them in the office, especially at the start for training, uh, is really important because they they are going to have a lot of questions. And anyone, even if they're senior staff, just learning about your processes and how you do things. Um, yeah, I mean, there's definitely ways you can do it online. I know that when I joined WISE, Jamie, Jamie and I were on a call every day. Um, we would record every session, just like we were talking about earlier. That way, if I did need to re-re-watch it again, I could. I didn't have to to ask him questions. Um, although, I mean, he was always around anyway. But yeah, just having those videos recorded was a lot easier as well. Um, I'm just gonna check the chat because I can see the chat going off. So I just want to see if there's any questions or anything. Um I think one of the major issues to solve is training junior members. Um and is that is that in regards to remote specifically or even in the office?

SPEAKER_02:

No, I think the issue is that senior people can quite work from home efficiently, but you're not really bringing up the next generation to to the same standards. Um I think that's probably the main reason why I choose to work from the office because I actually feel I can contribute more by being closer. Um having said that, in the pandemic, I think we all all learned that if you need to do something, you can achieve it. It's just probably for me, I think a slower learning curve to try and do it remotely.

SPEAKER_13:

Yeah, and that it it will take time to do that, especially if you've like if you've spent your whole working career working in the office with people, and then all of a sudden, you know, over the pandemic, you've had to like change everything, change your mindset, change everything. It is going to be a huge adjustment period to to yeah, to trust people, to to work out what what needs to be done so that everyone is being trained properly, um, nothing's being left out. Um, you need to have those things. But there's there is so much information, there's heaps of information in the wise vault. Um, I've got information too, again, happy to send it across, um, of how to do this properly so that you're not you're not skipping steps, um, steps that you might go, oh well that that's not really necessary, but later in the track it's it it is actually something that the your staff need. Um Yeah, so sorry, I'm just just looking at my notes to make sure that I haven't missed anything. I think the biggest thing is being very transparent with people from the from the start. So if you're if you are open to hybrid but they do need to work in the office for three, three months or six months uh at the start, make sure you you do discuss this during the interview stage or even the pre-screening stage. Um don't leave it until the last minute where you've you know you've you've gone through the entire hiring process with someone and then write with the job offer letter, then you go, you need to work in the office first. That's that's not good for anyone. Um even in the job ads, um, if you've got work from home, but then you don't you don't specify that it's hybrid work from home, you'll get people applying from everywhere because and it's not their fault, they're they've seen work from home, so they're gonna naturally think that that's all it is. Um so yeah, you you need to make sure that you are being specific. But also if you're going to adapt that um that hybrid model or work from home, you need to have good leadership. You know, there's if you don't have the those really good key senior people, um, this isn't gonna work because you need to have someone who's always gonna be able to answer those questions online, um, who's yeah, who's always just gonna be there. If whereas if you've got someone who's not great at remote working as a senior, and then you've got other people in your st in your team that are working remotely, it's just it's not gonna work at all. Um so making sure that you do have strong leaders in your firm who who can work, you know, even partially from home, um, but who can do their job properly as well, because you don't want people slacking off. Um, and then the other thing is just making sure that regardless if it's fully remote or hybrid or whatever it is, that you are having regular catch-ups. I know there are some firms who actually fly their staff out to wherever they are. Um it could be like once every three months or once a year or whatever it is. I think this particular firm does it every three months. Um, they all just join, they'll they'll go to, I think they're based in Geelong in Victoria. So they all go to Geelong no matter where they are, um, and then they'll have a day where they just catch up, they actually work together. So they've all got laptops, so they'll bring their laptops and they work together from a um a rented space that they rent just for the day. Um, and it's just a good way to sort of catch up and everything. And and I know when I went to Sydney a few months back, um, and I got to see the team, and we were all still working, but we were working together, that was really nice. Um, we didn't have any questions that we needed to ask each other about anything because we all know how to do our job, but it was just really nice being with the team. Um, so that's definitely something that you can adapt if you if you do have purely remote staff. Um I think that's pretty much it. But does anyone have any other questions about there's any anything that they're struggling with in terms of in you know anything really, but like work from home or Greg?

SPEAKER_03:

David?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, good.

SPEAKER_06:

Um, you know, just um social. You ask you're talking to me? Yes. Yes. Um yeah, social events. Like I'm just you know, when you everyone's on different time zones, you know, you got people who are you know, it's breakfast and lunch at you know at the same time. So yeah, we just always, you know, when we try to have you know lunch or dinner or have a you know drinks over Zoom, as you say, it's not very hard, easy not very easy anyway, because it's Zoom, and then the time differences make it even more difficult. Just you know, looking for ideas on that. I mean, I've heard lots of different ideas, and you know, we've done things like having betting betting syndicates and things like that, where we take turns, you know, betting, and then in the Indian government like closed down Indian pe Indian people accessing Australian betting sites. So we've tried a few things, and that was kind of working a bit, actually, that one. But what other ideas have you got?

SPEAKER_13:

So Ro, I'd love to hear from you as well about this with like the culture catch-ups and everything.

SPEAKER_10:

Yeah, well, uh about these, David, uh like probably will be like based on the disposition, you know, like based on the disposition of them and and and see how how free they feel to have like these catch-ups and see like probably it's not part of their their work, you know, but feel like this is part of the integration. At least for for me, what I uh I would like to start like doing like probably like one-on-one catch-ups and see how the people is feeling, see that, and then like integrated the team. Like, see, you know, like for example, us like say like, hey, go to Danny for this or go to Selena with this, and these interactions that we're having, first like start like making like a match with us, and then like you know, like just like like making lines between them after you're just one-on-one and and uh like encouraging the people to have that. Then probably once everybody it's a little bit like more interesting to know a little bit more about Danny, a little bit more about Selena, they they will be like more easier to say, like, you know, uh probably it's my 9 p.m. But uh I don't have nothing to do, and and uh and and they are so nice. Like, probably I would like to go just one step back and say, like, okay, they are already like a team, they feel like like with them. They they the fun fact when I started here in Weiss, I I start my work activity in in January, but in December the it was the the Christmas party, and it was at my 3 a.m. Like I I I wasn't starting my first day, but you know, I I was interested in say, like, you know, how's the team? Like uh, what is the dynamic of this? So uh 3 a.m. I stay wake up just to have like just say hi to everybody. So you know it's part of this, like uh having like the people a little more more integrated and and make these uh like the people can feel like these are not courage to attend and feel that they are part of it, yeah. Yeah, okay. Thanks, Matt. Thank you. Oh, my pleasure.

SPEAKER_13:

Thanks, Raoul. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Because I mean, I mean, this uh you were definitely the exception, Role, but I'm sure there are staff out there who would be like, I'm not joining at 3 a.m. I don't know you people, um I'm gonna stay asleep. Um, but if you build those connections with people, so yeah, like you mentioned, doing Those one-on-ones at the start, getting everyone comfortable with each other. And then there if you have the right people in the right seats with the right attitude, and that's the biggest thing, um, the attitude as well, then um you can have those those meetings where sometimes it is gonna be you know 11 o'clock at night, hopefully not 3 a.m. for for people, but you know, 11 o'clock, 12, 12 o'clock at night for some someone, but they'll be like, Well, I love my team, I'm gonna join, which is what exactly what happens here at WISE. Um, yeah, so that there's that part of things. And yeah, David, does that help a bit?

SPEAKER_06:

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_10:

Thanks.

SPEAKER_13:

Awesome.

SPEAKER_10:

My linda, do you have a question?

SPEAKER_05:

My question is is more around measuring productivity. Um what do you have in place to do that? Because I currently have someone working, um, and I know she has an interest in at least doing some work from home. Um my biggest issue is she's she's currently uh she's she's studying for her CPA. And on her study days, she wants to come to the office to study because she's more productive at the office studying. Uh so I'm there's a bit of a quandary there because if you want to come to the office to study because it's quieter and you can focus better, how do you think that you're going to be able to work from home? Um, so I I I'm having a little bit of an issue in that regard. And like I say, productivity for me is is also a bit of a concern.

SPEAKER_10:

Yeah. Yeah. Uh I would like to state here, Meline, that probably show be like kind of a project, like out her project and see like if she's developing the project and and probably she's busy doing all day, but what you're expecting uh it's done, and and probably she's doing at midnight or 3 a.m. You don't know what is her schedule. But if she's developing the work that you're needing, like uh probably it's where the balance is gonna start. Like, okay, well, you're in your house, but you're actually giving me what I need from you, so you resolve yourself. Uh yeah, that that will be one, but you're you are agree, it's uh it's uh uh perfectly understandable concern about what she's asking for, but probably that like just have that deal between what you need from her.

SPEAKER_03:

Okay.

SPEAKER_13:

That's a lot nicer than what I was gonna say, Raul. I was gonna say if she's it yeah, if she's not able to work from from home because of distractions, then it sounds like she's not the kind of person that you you can have working from home. Like she needs to be working in the office. Um because you just yeah, I mean she's made it clear from the start, like about about her distractions and everything. Um Stefka, I saw that you raised your hand. Do you have a comment about that?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh uh you can test it, like it depends how long she's been with you and stuff. But we usually we have budgets for every job. So I can look at a job and I know how long it will take. If it takes her twice as long, then we have a problem. But uh, if the job is done on time, I don't care when they work, what they do, as long as the job then gets done in the budget, the rest is whatever. It and you can test it, give her give her a week, a couple of days, see how it goes. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. It just tell her under the condition that you're going to if I see that the productivity drops, you're coming back to the office and and see how they go. It's not all or nothing. It's your discussion. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, I think I probably have some files or some projects that I can that I can do that with. Um and like you say, just test it and and see how it works out and keep an eye on it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_13:

Um and then um Edit, you have a question. Did you wanna did you want to ask this question for for the group?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, so I always worry that if you have a person who works remotely on their own, they are gonna be isolated and as much effort as you know one tries to make with meetings and keeping you know the involvement going, I kind of worry that it's very difficult when you've got a team of people and then you're kind of on the outside because you're a long way away or you just started or whatever it might be. So those of you who work remotely, would it make any difference whether you had someone else starting at the same time? Would it make any difference whether that person was in your area, in your location, or remotely, or does it actually not matter at all?

SPEAKER_03:

Am I worrying about something I shouldn't be worrying about? Mina, I'm gonna pick on you again to to help answer this one.

SPEAKER_09:

Yeah, I think it my opinion is it makes no difference. Um it's gonna come down to other factors. Um we've got team members who work in the same suburb and they work remotely um a few days a week. It's more just to fit in with their requirements. So they're a single parent um with two kids, etc. And that day sort of helps them, you know, navigate and feel like you know they can function life um around work and etc. Um, so I think it just depends. And the only other comment, which I think goes back to maybe David's one, is um take a note from the younger generation, they're they're building connections online, um, they're building connections um and relationships, and sometimes they'll even talk about oh, they admire this person or you know that person's their hero, and they've never met them. So when you take that social aspect um and bring it to your practice, you know, when in our team, if team members are posting on, we've got like a social chat um on it, and if they're posting, they've got a new cat, etc. And then there's conversations and it you're just trying to create that social network, which is what it is outside of that. I don't think the um where they're located is gonna make much of a difference. Um that's that's my opinion.

SPEAKER_02:

So but it's one remote staff or two remote staff makes no difference. Is that what you guys who work remotely concur with? Doesn't make any difference.

SPEAKER_09:

Yeah, they they shouldn't feel like camaraderie because another person works remotely. Does that make sense? Because then you've missed the whole point. You're not you're not trying to make them feel like they're remote in the first place.

SPEAKER_10:

Yeah, and and some people they have an specific necessity about what they wanted to like why they wanted to work uh like home office, like parents or people who like to be in their houses, or that they feel more productive in their houses. So there isn't a specific like uh topic or a specific thing that people it's looking for. So probably as that as that as in a direction point and identify those necessities and see like if those are the right necessities, you know, like but meaning what? Like if if this person is uh in their in his home, but never answer the team's chat, never it's you know, the the person, the person it's like basically like boom, disappear. So that's wrong. That's a red flag for you. But if the person it's always like online, he always answered the questions, it's developing the work. So it's kind of the way that you can start like auditing those like times that the people it's like working in their houses. Because makes difference, like makes difference once uh that a person who's actually like putting all the efforts to to the work in their houses and those that are not.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's it's not it's not a trust issue, it's more a case of looking at it from the other side. How is it easiest for you guys, or how does it work best for you guys? I guess that's kind of my question. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_14:

Um, so I joined WISE about a year ago, and when I joined, I had no idea Roel was also from Mexico, and we were in the same time zone. We don't live close by. Um, but to me it made no difference whether Danny was in Australia and my other coworker Chris is in the Philippines. That to me was even more exciting because to me from Mexico, I got to meet people from over the, you know, from other places around the world. Um so it it really doesn't make a difference. Um I connect with them four to five hours each day on like my time. Um and yeah, it it really, yeah, it I mean, if I would have found out Roll was also working here and my same time zone, it really wouldn't have impulsed me to accept a job, you know, quicker because I knew my teammates and my coworkers, like my direct ones, don't get any input. They're right there every single time I need them, even if it's not during my time zone. I know that when they're online, they resolve anything I need. So I don't feel like I'm not part of the team and that kind of makes sense. And I don't feel like an outsider or like all this time zone is it's a different time set time zone. And you truly you truly don't feel like you it kind of doesn't even yeah, like you kind of don't think about it if it makes sense because the people you're working with and the the things you're doing on your day to day is kind of like what you need to concentrate on. So yeah, I don't think it really makes any difference whether people are in Mexico or in Australia, as long as you have that like culture of I'm here anytime you need me, I think people are gonna feel welcome no matter where they're from.

SPEAKER_10:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_14:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_10:

I have uh like some catch-ups at uh like 7 or 8 p.m. And uh they have another's at 7 a.m. Like with with different people uh around the world apart of wise. So this is just like your your convincement, convincement of being part of the business and being part of the project, and and just like have having the people like near to you and and just continuously like looking for the goal that you're looking for.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you guys, much appreciated.

SPEAKER_10:

Nice.

SPEAKER_03:

Um did you have a question about that?

SPEAKER_12:

If that's okay. Absolutely. So so the flexibility for employees working whenever they want as long as they achieve those outcomes. Um, and I gather we've got you know people from all around the world. Uh in Australia, fair work doesn't really allow that level of flexibility. Like if an employee wanted to work at three in the morning, we're now paying double time rates without choice. You can't choose to not pay someone those penalty rates because they're working at 3 a.m. That's not our standard business hours. So, how do you navigate providing flexibility in a framework where there is none? That's a great question.

SPEAKER_10:

Uh uh Danny, well, you have your your perspective as living in in uh in Australia, but for me, for example, or or the people that I have seen like working like offshore, as much as they're putting their 7.5 hours in the carbon or or or any software that they they you're recording your time, you are working your eight hours, 7.5 hours per day. That that's it. Like you're not working like extra hours. But I don't know, Danny, how is uh in your case?

SPEAKER_12:

Yeah. Um so in Australia, you still do your 7.6 hour day. That's a standard work day. But when you do it also attracts what person's entitled to be paid. If they do it between sort of 7 a.m., 6 p.m., standard rates apply. But if it's outside of that, you have to pay penalty rates without choice. That can then make it well, it's you know unaffordable to pay someone double time just because they're choosing to not work in business hours. So that makes it a very big challenge to make it, you know, um flexible.

SPEAKER_13:

Yeah, absolutely. To be honest, I've never come across a case where someone wanted to work past, you know, six o'clock at night. Um, it's always just it's actually been earlier. So they'll they'll say, can I please start at seven um and finish early uh finished earlier? Um and they might it might be because they'll start at seven and then quickly drop off the kids at school and then pick them up as well. Um, or they do the nine till three sort of shift, which is uh obviously different. That's a different thing again. Um but yeah, I I've never actually come across someone who's who's wanted to do past the that those sort of standard hours.

SPEAKER_12:

Um I've had particularly um mums who want to work, I've had people approach me before saying, Oh, the kids go to bed at about 7:30, so I can jump back on and do another two or three hours there, then I'm like, well, I can't afford you to work at that time of night.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_12:

Even though I personally have an issues, that works for them. That's fine. Um, but that's where that lack of flexibility is actually not driven necessarily at a firm level. It's you know, by Australian legislation.

SPEAKER_13:

Um, well, Mina, did you want to help answer this one? Because I've seen that you put it in the in the comments.

SPEAKER_09:

Um, Natasha, we're 99% um working mum uh workforce, uh and that's amongst um 20 plus members. Um, even them, they're starting seven, and then they've got the school um pick up and drop off. Not even one has asked outside of that seven to seven um flexibility. So that's that's what we've experienced across that number of team members um working mums, etc.

SPEAKER_03:

Seven to seven still works.

SPEAKER_10:

Yeah, it can be uh in a specific case, probably since this is like more based, or or most of the people are in Australia. And for example, I am 17 hours behind. So my my flexibility needs to be like a little bit more extra since the people it's more around the world. Those those meetings that I have, it's with people in Australia, in Philippines, in India, in uh Ireland, so it's different, that's why.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_13:

So I guess Natasha, but maybe advice is if someone wants to work past that in Australia, they might not be the right fit. But if you were looking to hire someone you know offshore, then yeah, that's a better that could be a better option. Um okay, well, I think that's pretty much it because it is 10 o'clock and I don't want to keep anyone else waiting. I know Selena, she's she's ready to catch a flight to Baracky now.

SPEAKER_11:

That's right. Oh, just a quick um, just a quick uh reminder. We do have our WhatsApp group. So if you haven't joined yet, I posted the link earlier. Uh yeah, just uh feel free to connect there. Uh it's also one of those um open chats, or you can just put it on mute, just uh check it in when you're when you're looking for something. But yeah, a lot of the mentors, all of us are there.

SPEAKER_13:

So if you have any questions, just feel free to it's definitely a great chat because yeah, it it's sort of like this as well. Like if you've got random questions, you can the mentors are right there. Like it's so easy.

SPEAKER_11:

Jamie, Ed, and Brenton are there as well, too. So yeah.

SPEAKER_13:

Um exactly, that's what it is. And it's it's we're all worldwide. Like that's what I love about us.

SPEAKER_00:

Um thanks for tuning in to this episode of The Wise Way. If today's episode sparked an idea or helped you see things differently, please don't forget to leave us a review. And if you haven't subscribed to the podcast on your favourite platform yet, please go ahead and do that as well. Let's continue the conversation here through YouTube or any other social platforms that you can find us on. And just remember, if you're not a subscriber of our weekly Friday tip newsletter, you can get that to your inbox every week going forward. Whether you're starting out or scaling up, you don't have to do it alone. Let's build a business that works for you the wise way. We'll see you in the next episode.