The Wize Way

Episode 184: The Real Legacy of Leadership with Jane Pollard

• Wize Mentoring for Accountants and Bookkeepers • Season 2 • Episode 184

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Most firm owners think leadership is about driving harder, fixing problems faster, and holding everything together themselves.

But real freedom doesn’t come from doing more, it comes from lifting others to lead.

In this episode of The Wize Way Podcast, Jane Pollard shares an honest reflection on leadership, legacy, and what changes when a firm owner stops centering the business around themselves and starts building people instead.

You’ll hear Jane unpack:

  • Why leadership is about impact, not control
  • The mindset shift from serving clients to developing leaders
  • What it means to paint a future your team can’t yet see
  • How building yourself first creates a better life for everyone around you
  • Why it’s never “too late” to lead differently - or more meaningfully

If you’re building a firm and wondering what your work is really for, this conversation will challenge how you think about leadership, success, and the legacy you’re creating through your team.

This is one for firm owners who want their business to mean something, not just run.

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PS: Whenever you’re ready… here are the fastest 4 ways we can help you fix and grow your accounting firm:

1. Download our famous Wize Freedom Strategy Map for FREE - Find out the 96 projects every firm owner must implement to build a $5M+ firm that can run without them - Download here

2. Need to Hire right now? Book a 1:1 FREE discovery call with our WizeTalent hiring coaches to help find your next team member the Wize Way – Click Here

3. Book a 1:1 Wize Discovery Session – Spend 30mins with our Wize CEO, Jamie Johns, a $7M firm owner who is ready to give you his entire business plan to build a firm that can run without you – Find out more here

4. Work with Jamie and our mentors for 8 weeks - Build a custom business plan for your firm - Apply here

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome to The Wise Way, the show for accounting and bookkeeping firm owners who want more time, profit, and freedom, and a business that can run without them. I'm Brent Ward, your host, and each week we deep dive into the real stories, proven strategies, and battle-tested tools from successful firm owners just like you. Our wise mentors want to share their journey of how they've scaled and systemized their way to freedom so you can too. If you're stuck in the grind or you're ready to scale smarter, this is your blueprint. Let's get into the episode.

SPEAKER_01:

Hi everyone, I'm here joined by Jane Pollard of Catalyst Accountants. I'm very excited to be joining her because um she was uh very mentioned by the members to um come to this wise factor chat interviews, and I'm very excited to talk to her. She was recently recently a guest in our Boracai workshop, so where they had an absolute ball. So I'm very excited to to host her today. So I wanted to go through some questions and yeah, let's talk about your business. So let's go from the top, Jane. Um, when did you first start? What made you start your business? Um, how did everything start?

SPEAKER_02:

Um, I started in 2010. Um, I was living in a tiny uh town in central Queensland uh because my husband was in the police at the time, and we got posted to this tiny little town, and uh it was difficult to get um work. Uh and I had always this dream of having my own business. So I rented um a little old church actually, and it was really beautiful space, and uh just just advertised, just put my uh word out, and and there was only one other accountant in town. So anyone that was not happy with her came to me and the business grew really quickly, and I thought, oh, this is really easy, you know, um, until later when we moved back to a bigger town, I was uh not quite the flavour of the month because um I was unknown. So we had to um we just grew a bit slower after that. But it was a it was a great start to the business, gave me a lot of confidence. Yeah, but I've been an accountant all my life and had always wanted my own business and finally got the courage to do it. So I didn't really have a plan of how big this was gonna go, and that has all unfolded as I've learned about business, not accounting business. So yeah. Um yeah, hope that answers your question.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that totally does. And you mentioned something that is very true and something that we see most of our members, it's not the same to be an accountant than to be a business owner. Um, and we like to call usually the people that um fit into this wise factor chat um entrepreneurial um accountants, because that's basically what it is. It's like you have to be a client manager as well, you have to have your own bookkeeping and accounting for your own business. So it's it's it's a whole other situation. So uh let's fast forward a little down the line of time. You are growing your business, everything's starting to to spike up, big start, then it got a little slower. But then what was the moment where you started to find some challenge? And what were what were those challenges when you were growing the business?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I would love to say wise is my only coach, but I've been coached for probably 10 years and been through a whole group of different uh coaches and environments of learning business and learning how to build your business. And uh luckily had a very keen employee um start with me about 12 years ago, and she's been on that journey with me. So every workshop I did, she did, and we have grown together. So she has developed into you know a very um well-rounded accountant slash businesswoman as well, and um we're in the talks now of her buying into the business. And so I guess I was blessed that I had a second kind of um person to to you know lever the business and and grow it. And when she became a client services manager, we had um the ability to to keep the momentum going and then the strength of of the growth. Um so the the pivotal moment I think was I got involved with another business and I decided I needed very quickly to lever myself out of this one. That's where I remembered all the whys um marketing about you know, stepping up out of your business. And I thought I just need those tools and I'll be set, you know, I'll just grab those and I'll be done. Um but ironically, what it did was I found my passion back for this business and I have let the other business go. So in in systemizing and putting in place the wise tools, I have kind of found my place better. I I'm more excited about what we can do here. So that's yeah, that's been what what's happened in the last year. So we've set some very bold goals this year and um had some challenges, definitely had challenges, things I never thought would rattle the team, have rattled the team. And um yeah, but we're just I'm I'm very philosophic about what happens, just you know, observe and go, okay, that that probably could have been done better. But um we just get better at what we do. Yeah. So we've really shaken the business up and settled it down into this new wise model and um just actually hired two more teams to help us get better at the system side of it. Yeah. So I'm a little impatient as a person anyway, but I feel like now I've really got the direction and the tools. It's just doing the doing it, doing the work.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. You you feel like you're making some progress there.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. It does feel two steps forward, one step back, but we um have the plan. So it's like, okay, well, if that didn't work, we'll go this way. Like it doesn't phase me too much if we have a bit of a stumble. It's just like, okay, it doesn't make me want to give up or anything. It's just I'm just new. This is new territory. So um yeah, I think my whole mindset of not being too attached to the outcome is has really shifted because I have the plan. So it's like, well, you know, we're just gonna keep pushing towards the plan.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. Actually, I wanted to ask you related to this, um, because you know, we talk about all the time, like there's you can build a business that runs without you. You know that some of our members do and are at that point. Um, how do you feel about that? How does that make you feel? Do you want to be out of business? Do you want to stay here and build a business that can run without you but doesn't run without you because you want to be in it? Does it scare you? What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02:

I think waking up each day not having an idea of what I was doing, having a very clear um commitment to what I was doing for for a long time now, um, is a bit scary. But I think there's lots to consider um I could do, I could add value to. But right now I don't have really that time to consider that. I might entertain it occasionally, but I'm actually more focused and more in the business than ever, but I am always mentoring our leaders. So I'm actually changed my focus from client to team. So I think that's the most radical thing that's happened this this year.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I wanted to clients we had a couple leave that and and you know that some of the team were really upset about it. And I was like, that's okay. Get a better client. It's it's it's all fine. I'm not, it's like seasons, what is that? Reasons and seasons. It's just business changes, people's needs change, people change, and we're changing, so we're going to keep losing clients as we re-jig that energy around the clients, I think.

SPEAKER_01:

So yeah, I'm just yeah, I'm very philosophic about it. I love it. And I wanted to ask you like if there had been a mindset shift, because you know that we touch on so much on uh new culture, on leadership, on values, on beginning with the end in mind. So there's generally lots of shift from business owners who were managing the firm as like the old school style, and now they have to think differently. And you just said it like there was a mindset shift in the sense that um you were thinking about more so the clients were more important than your team, but now it's the other way around. Was there anything else that you felt was you had a breakthrough moment um during the wise philosophy, or were you um already aligned with with these values?

SPEAKER_02:

And I think the biggest mindset shift you have to take on board. Um, not 100%, but I'm definitely aware of how damaging it is if you're not 100%, is the no bypass policy.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

So I had my own relationships with all, you know, I had a very flat team when I started WISE and lots of reports, and it was just, you know, busy, busy, busy all day long. Yeah. Now it's less busy and as in less interruptions, less um it it feels calmer.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Um but if I get it, if I get talking to a new client, I'm not gonna go walking around the office and give it to the junior. I'm not allowed to do that anymore. So um I have to go through the channel and um I can see it happen backfiring every time I mess it up. And it's a bad habit of just thinking, well, I can do it and I want to do it the quickest way. It's not the quickest way. So it really undermines the managers if I go around them and they have full permission to berate me if I do it. And I have been told off a few times. I love that. I'm out of the loop. They're out of the loop, and they feel like, well, what else is she up to? So I'm like, well, I don't want them to have any doubt of where um I'm at and what I'm doing with with work. But you know, I have a couple of days here before Christmas, I have piles of paper everywhere, and I'm just going to basically delegate everything by Christmas Eve and it'll all be to the managers because they can figure out who's doing what. So um I have full faith that they're great managers and I have to put a hundred percent of my energy behind them because they they can, you know, we've just kind of split that um management direction to them. So I have to support them and do everything I can to empower them. So we problem solve together all the time, but I'm not um, you know, delegating work and following up on queries. I'm not doing any of that, which is great. Yeah, but I do have niggling thoughts in my head. What happened to that? Where's that at? You know, and I'll I'll check in. I'll say, what happened to that? So the oh crap, they'll say I didn't do that. Like, yeah. So um reason. Um so yeah, and we've just going to redo the whole diary for 2026 and put all the meetings because Jamie goes on and on and on about the meeting rhythm, and I really want to get good at that. I and I'm embracing meetings more and more. And you know, we always think we know best sometimes, but we don't. But Jamie has a model, and and we just have to follow the model, and it will be okay. And you'll you know there's no perfection. Get it, there's no perfection.

SPEAKER_01:

I was gonna say I I admire your honesty on this there's no bypass policy, and it's actually one of the toughest to follow to a T because I do think that there's a lot of power in, you know, you trust these people because you micro train them rather than micromanaging, so that's why you trust them, but you there's also this little devil on your other shoulder that's telling you to go check in them, to go ask them. And that's exactly like you said, that's undermining your managers and your your you get uh you get accountability for doing that, you get accountable because you know it's like feedback in that sense. But I feel like it's very honest from your point of view to say that it's tough and that your it is tough, and it's one of the toughest. So I I feel like it's very important um for everyone who's listening to us or or uh watching us through whatever uh platforms we're on, um, that they understand that no firm owner who's doing the wise program or who's getting coaching or or anything like this is overnight becoming like this huge mass of literature and they're very into it and they understand everything and see the world clearly. It's uh day-by-day work and it's just progress. Like you're going to get to 100, and I'm sure that you're going to be like, for example, Ed at Chen, um, who's basically practicing the Nobite Post policy on a daily basis where he's, I think, 90% off his business, like Jamie, um, and any of the mentors who are now working less and less. But yeah, I feel like it's there's there's such a uh value in being honest and saying, like, hey, I don't have this routine uh uh December 2025, but I'll have this figured in a couple of months. Um I wanted to ask you uh a last question, um, but I think it's very important. So you're talking about uh, you know, we talk about this business that will run without you one day. Um, and even if it doesn't run without you, you'll have more time to focus on yourself. What's one hobby that you used to do or any activity that you enjoyed previous to having less time because you became a full owner that you would love to get back to, or that you got back to thanks to having more time?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, Jamie's big on the exercise, and in June I committed to the 30 minutes every day, and I have pretty much committed to that 100% and feel better for it. And um I have my own little network now at 5:30 in the morning at a gym down the road. We do some classes, and the same ladies turn up, and you know, over six months you get to have a chat every morning, and it's so non-work related, and you get to see that beautiful dawn sky. And I'm not a dawn person, but I've done this out out of, you know, sometimes Jamie has a little curse word in my mouth at five in the morning. I'm like, I don't want to do this, but I have to do this. And then I'm like so happy for the rest of the day that I did it. I just just I feel like that has been, and my goal is that I wander out the door at five, not at seven, five, and go and do another class in the evening. That will be to me a kind of icing on the cake to uh start and finish my day with some fitness. And um I've set some other goals to do some big uh big walks, you know, these 30, 40k walks. I've done a few over the years and they're just such a challenge, mental challenge and physical challenge that I have conquered, and I think, well, I just gotta keep doing it because it's a bit of a buzz to step through that. And um yeah, while I've been doing my business, I've been renovating. So I have um renovating projects. So I have two more on my plate for 2026. Doesn't mean I physically paint anymore, but I'm definitely managing some renovations. So we've done a four-year one in our office, which blows everyone away when they come in our office. They just think, wow. And that's I'm pretty proud of that. And then I've bought the house next door, so we're renovating that now. I love that. So that's going to be part of your office. Um, it could be. It could be, yes. I'm open to I'm open to what that might end up being. So um it's yeah, a long story, but it's um it's it's a project. So yeah, fitness, um, I'm a big reader and family, hanging out with friends. Um, some of my friends are retired already, and I'm like, I'm not ready for that. But I just if they've got somewhere to go or do, you know, a fun activity, I don't want to think, I've got to work, I'm not gonna do it. I want to go. I want to be able to just reorganize my calendar and be gone. And so that freedom is what I'm looking for to just come and go and be absolutely trusting. I had someone re ask me the um once recently. Um what's everyone doing when you're not there? And I'm like, well, they they know they know their jobs. I don't have to sit there and check in on them. It's like I'm irrelevant. They've all got their jobs. I just come and go, you know. So I think that's the ultimate test that it doesn't matter if I'm here or not, everything will just flow. Yeah. That's the test that I've achieved something that's um got that freedom. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. That's scalability, but optional scalability. Like if you want to come in and get to work one day because you love this client, you want to treat them like A-class clients, so you come in and do the work, and then the other day you're probably having some family reunion, something special, a trip, something that you you love, your 40k, um, your next 40k marathon. So I'm playing for these things. Yeah, these things take time. Get on. You already join the 5 a.m. club. So I think you're you're halfway there. So you'll you'll get four days ago, the 5 a.m. club. Oh yeah, that's funny. Yeah. You join's a nice hour of the day. It's a beautiful hour of the day. It's beautiful. I feel like the mornings are are the most beautiful uh time of the day when you can see the sun rising, everyone getting to work like at first thing in the morning. And when you do it, you feel so nice when you when you do some sport first thing in the morning. I feel like it's it's renovating for you. So yeah, it's great that you that you take your time to do it. I love that answer. Um, so yeah, these are all my answers for you, Jane. Thank you so much for taking the time to meet with me and to talk to me and to share. Um, if there's one thing that you would say to a firm owner, to a Jane back like five years back, um, what would you say to them?

SPEAKER_02:

I would say that works point-wise, if you want the tools to to be the best leader you can be, to be the best um mentor to your team to give them the better life. Because as I lift myself and set examples of what I can do, um, I feel like I've left my run a little bit late, but I'm like, oh well, if I get bitten strong, I've I've got it in me to go another 10 years. So I'm I'm like, what impact can I have on my team in their lives and in their influence? Then that's the magic, I think. That's the magic. So I think my job is just to find the good people and build them up and paint pictures that they've never even thought of that they could do. So we've I've seen it happen. So I'm I'm I'm kind of I I feel very blessed, that's all I can say. But to someone looking at wise, I think if you embrace it 100% and go, and there's literally a yellow brick road. You tick the boxes off as you do the jobs you've got to do and the letting go things. So um I consider we're about 45% in the path of of the of the path, you know, the the big uh wise map, the map. The freedom map, yeah. And having a map, freedom map, and having the map is just gold. Like that's the gold. How else can you do it without a map? So I think that's the the the secret source that wise have. They have the map and they have all the tools and then all the support to just go do the journey. Saying that Jamie was very fortuitous meeting Ed and seeing what Ed had in his mind of how he'd done his journey and then making that journey understandable. So, yeah, very um inspiring person, and then he's built his beautiful team around him as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so yeah, absolutely. I agree with you 100%, and and I love that you have that idea and that you want to share that into the world because I feel like it's super powerful that what a mentor could do to you, and not even and I when you said you you had been coached before, I love that because it means that you're open to coaching, that you trust coaching, that you feel like someone else can pass on their their wisdom to you, which is great.

SPEAKER_02:

And I don't think I might have been ready for wise 10 years ago. Okay, I had to have a whole bunch of skills and thinking into my head first before I was ready to be open to the actual leadership, you know, up up and out role, which is kind of giving everyone else the gift of running the place. Like you're not um you're not giving anyone a burden, you're giving someone a new experience. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And and there's I just want to wrap up with one thing that you said that it's you probably heard Jamie say this, but he says that the master appears when the student is ready, yeah, yeah. That's when the master appears. So um that's what happened to you.

SPEAKER_02:

Um and when I I had been yeah, I'd been following Jamie for many years, and I met him five years prior to to when I engaged with Wise. Okay. And I can't say, oh, I wish I had gone with him. Then I didn't understand the power of what he was doing then. Um, so yeah, it took me more five more years to figure out that's actually what I needed.

SPEAKER_01:

So the master did appear to you, he showed up in another form, then he'll learn how to be a better master, and you learn how to be uh a great student to to catch the wisdom. So that's it.

SPEAKER_02:

And and the faster you can kind of embrace it and not judge it because people are slow to adopt the change. But um, you know, we lost some team members trying to implement this change, and they they were like rattled and it was too much change. But I was like, I'm sorry, but we're not going backwards. We we're on a train here, we're going forward. So if you don't want to be on the train, that's absolutely fine. Um, but it was upsetting. Um but those that are meant to be with us will be with us. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep. And there's that that's the people that you will scale with. So you cannot have someone who doesn't trust your vision or your goals because if you're the captain here and they don't trust the captain, then it's hard to get to get this this ship going. Um, but thank you so much, Jane, for your answers. I loved having this moment with you. Um, so yeah, thank you. I hope one day we get to meet Claudia. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of The Wise Way. If today's episode sparked an idea or helped you see things differently, please don't forget to leave us a review. And if you haven't subscribed to the podcast on your favourite platform yet, please go ahead and do that as well. Let's continue the conversation here through YouTube or any other social platforms that you can find us on. And just remember, if you're not a subscriber of our weekly Friday tip newsletter, get that to your inbox every week going forward. Whether you're starting out or scaling up, you don't have to do it alone. Let's build a business that works for you the wise way. We'll see you in the next episode.