The Wize Way

Episode 130: Wize Factor Chat: Jake Douglas - Church Finance Pros

• Wize Mentoring for Accountants and Bookkeepers • Season 2 • Episode 130

Share episode

Delegate like a demon!

In this episode of The Wize Guys Podcast, we chat with Jake Douglas, founder of Church Finance Pros, as he takes us through his journey from an accidental start in bookkeeping to building a thriving, niche-focused business serving churches. Jake opens up about the challenges he faced scaling his original firm, the burnout that came with it, and the pivotal decision to specialize in church clients.

He shares how joining Wize Mentoring was a game-changer, helping him build a more efficient team structure, delegate tasks effectively, and streamline operations to scale. From growing his team from 2 to 9 members to implementing key strategies that allow him to step back from day-to-day operations, Jake talks about the power of creating a business that runs without him—giving him the freedom to focus on what matters most, both in his business and personal life.

This episode is packed with practical tips and inspiration for anyone looking to scale their firm and achieve work-life balance. Don’t miss it!

________________

PS: Whenever you’re ready… here are the fastest 3 ways we can help you fix and grow your accounting firm:

1. Download our famous Wize Freedom Strategy Map for FREE - Find out the 96 projects every firm owner must implement to build a $5M+ firm that can run without them - Download here

2. Need to Hire right now? Book at 1:1 FREE hiring assessment with our WizeTalent recruiters to help find your next best employee locally or offshore – Click Here

3. Book a 1:1 Wize Discovery Session – Spend 30mins with our Wize CEO, Jamie Johns, a $7M firm owner who is ready to give you his entire business plan to build a firm that can run without you – Find out more here

Wize Mentoring:

From Wize Mentoring is the Wize Guys podcast, a show about accounting and bookkeeping practice owners and the many stories, lessons, and tips from their experience of transitioning from a time- poor practice to a business that runs without them. I hope you enjoy and subscribe.

Wize Claudia:

Hi, Jake, thank you for making time to be here with me today. I was very excited to talk to you because there are some great insights that I know you can provide. First of all, because you're a bookkeeper, and we love that we have bookkeeping firms that are joining slowly but surely on wise and I would love to have your vision on that. And also, your niche is very interesting. But first, before we go into that, I wanted to go from the start, where it all began. When did you start your business? Why did it start? And then, why the niche? Why did you choose churches?

Jake Douglas:

Yeah, that's great. Well, thanks for having me. First of all, I started my business, which is called Church Finance Pros, in 2019. And it actually came out of another firm that I had that was not specialized or niched down into churches. I had started building one in about 2014. And it was kind of by accident. I was not a professionally trained accountant. In fact, I took accounting classes after I already started my business.

Jake Douglas:

But my wife's aunt had a small bookkeeping company. Basically she was just a sole proprietor and had one client, but she was really proud of that and wanted to pass that down to my wife. But, my wife did not want to have anything to do with the accounting and wanted to pass that down to my wife. But my wife did not want to have anything to do with the accounting and finance. That's not her strong suit. She's a marriage and family therapist, so she's much more into the relationships and mental health side of things.

Jake Douglas:

So I stepped in and I ended up growing that company to six figures while I was working full-time at my church, and so it was a steep learning curve and I had to learn everything really on my own.

Jake Douglas:

I didn't have any mentors, any guidance, and really no money working for a church to invest in that. So it was a long learning curve. But what I realized was it's so hard to scale a business that's not niched down because I had to be able to find staff who were experts in everything. So they needed to be able to understand any kind of software that a client might be using. They had to know all of the tax deadlines for sales tax and payroll tax in all of the different states in the US, and it just became very complicated to find staff who could rise to that level. So I was getting burnt out, working way too many hours, and eventually decided to close that business down, and so what I wanted to do was kind of shift gears and focus just working with churches and kind of rebuild from the ground up. So I referred out all of my for-profit clients minus just a couple of legacy clients that were probably the higher dollar value clients that I kept to make the transition who are ? .

Jake Douglas:

all still with us today. But in 2019, I actually got rid of all those clients and then just started with a couple of churches that we had on our client load at that company I was still working full time at that time at my church started over in 2019, then COVID hit in 2020 and things kind of went crazy there. And things kind of went crazy there, but so many churches reached out during that time because they were essentially lost in that moment right. All of a sudden they can't meet in person any longer. They don't. know Now there there are collect offerings and tithes from their congregation and so and plus, they needed help managing the complex COVID credits and all of that. So they started reaching out.

Jake Douglas:

I started learning all of those things and fast forward. Now we're in this five years since the company was officially formed Pros. It really wasn't until 2020 that things started taking off with the church side of things, but since to all, I think in 2021, I resigned from my role at the church because I couldn't keep both things going any longer and have a healthy life, and so we've continued to grow over the last what three years since then, our team has grown from essentially me and my little sister who was working for me at the time. To now, there's nine of us on the team, so we've grown quite a lot.

Wize Claudia:

Wow, that's very exciting. I was just going to ask you that, like how many staff you have working at Church Finance? And then so fast forward five years ago. You started five years and how and then fast forward all of these things that have happened COVID, and then a little ahead. What were the problems that you started to encounter while building this firm, which was obviously getting a lot of recognition because the church niche was starting to work for you? the h. of

Jake Douglas:

But what were the problems you were Church Finance to Pros solve at that time, yeah, so really the thing that I needed help with was understanding how can get the most out of my Wize, Wize how we can maximize our there was. Because of the fast pace of growth. We encountered a lot of, I guess, a big struggle in getting staff WizeH ub enough to provide the quality of service that we had become known for, without having to spend just exorbitant amounts of time, training and onboarding. Having a niche was already hugely helpful in that, because we knew exactly what each person needed to learn. But what I found was we would hire someone and it would take about three to four months for them to really get their feet underneath them. But when we bring on a client, we need to be up and running much faster than that. And so I was trying to sort through how do we grow the firm, grow the team and keep pace between those two things when a new staff member takes us four months to onboard and our existing staff could only stretch so far in the meantime? And so figuring out that whole hiring dance was really a big challenge. And then also I would see, like in the Weiss mentoring community, I would see these people who are like, oh, we've got one team and they're doing roughly a million dollars in revenue as a team. And I'm like, all right, I'm nowhere near that with one team. And I was starting to feel overstaffed and so I thought I've something's off. Either I'm pricing way too low or or my team is like I'm not expecting enough from the team, or something is happening that's really inefficient in the whole process. And so those were some of the questions that were really burning that I was like I need to figure this out, and I my relationship with wise is a little bit funny because back a couple years ago I don't remember how I found out about wise or when I found out about wise I think I stumbled upon the podcast was probably my first interaction, and so I binge listened to all of the podcast and I was like, okay, this all makes sense the team structure and things like that.

Jake Douglas:

So from the time I started building Wize finance pros out like in more, in more detail, I already was aligning the team based on what I Wize from all of the free resources that wise January offered. February didn't even know there's like a coaching program. I thought it's just, you know, there's these guys and I knew about, like the wise hub, and I was like, okay, they've got the hub, but ? didn't know there's even Wize Wize program. I just was like, oh, these guys are great all information, super ROI helpful of ROI and so I started implementing our team structure, getting hired, like the production team, the production manager I was still kind of acting as the client manager, but I hired a US-based intern who I was going to help become a client manager, a US-based intern who I was going to help become a client manager, and so I really worked hard over the last couple of years to get myself out of production. of

Jake Douglas:

What happened, Wize after I joined Wise Elite? I found that I think when did I connect with Jamie? Maybe like three months ago I joined Wise Elite. Actually, it was earlier it's january or february of this year, 2024 divisions um that we were on a call and then I had just hired my first like full client manager, he was really expensive divisions I had to buy him and his expertise right. One of the things wise teaches is that you should hire senior, that was senior people, and you you get a better roi on people who have the experience and are the best, uh, they're the best fit for the role, uh. So I connected was this guy and I ended up hiring him, but I had to buy him out of the medical community, which is really they pay well and have a lot of benefits. So I was a little short on cash flow or just wasn't confident in jumping in right away. So after a couple months I was just kind of saving money and getting ready for that.

Jake Douglas:

I joined Wise Elite and just committed to going for it, and the first thing that I realized that Jamie kind of pointed out to me was that I'm doing too much admin work. So in the wise withdrawal process right, division six and seven are really the first that need to go out the door and onto someone else's plate. And I was doing all division six and seven because I had worked so hard to withdraw from divisions four and five and so I had a team that's doing a great job with four and five, but I, as the highest paid, my CEO, I was basically just the admin for the firm. So the first thing he said is go hire an admin. You need to get one right away, like, don't do anything else until you do that.

Jake Douglas:

So I hired an admin and we've been spending about three hours every day just going through recording our whole training sessions, and she's been documenting everything I've been teaching her into formal SOPs and so that then, because she's overqualified the admin that we have is way overqualified, which is fantastic, but be able to step into a bookkeeping or production manager role. As we start to build out our second team now, which is kind of another step that Jamie's encouraged us to do, since we have a client manager managing the first team, now I'll start to build the second team and actually be doing the work of a client manager instead of an admin. So that will open up all the capacity that I've been wondering where it was at. It's because I've been the admin instead of being a client manager, at least at our size, which is what I should be doing, and as we grow and build the teams and then I can more and more withdraw from that. So that's a big picture but a lot of details.

Wize Claudia:

No, that's amazing, amazing, and thank you for sharing that, because, from what I understand and that was actually the next question I wanted to ask you like which one of the lessons you felt like was the most impactful to you and I can understand is related to team structure. Probably by now, um, since you've been doing all this, all these changes in such a small window of time, because technically, in three months, you've been doing all this, all these changes in such a small window of time because, technically, in three months, you've already hired an admin, are creating a second team, so you're advancing really fast.

Jake Douglas:

Yes, yeah, we've fine- driving hard on that and thankfully we had a lot of the groundwork built right. The team already had Wize Wize a loose structure of what it needed to be. We had the right titles, but not necessarily all of the right tasks in the right places, and so we've been reorganizing that. I spent two hours on a call with the team just recasting vision for who needs to be doing what and making sure that everyone's in the right seats and doing the right things, because there's been, like I said, the right titles in place. So the structure is there, but we need to just reorganize a little bit of work and essentially we need to make sure that all of the work is flowing down to the bookkeeping team and the client management team is still doing a little too much production. So it's a lot of work and for significant gains, I feel like, but I think that the amount of the change isn't really drastic.

Jake Douglas:

It's a lot of fine tuning, a bunch of little parts there, but we've spent a ton of time on it already since joining Wise Elite and, thankfully, because I had been able to extract from a lot of the production work already, I have more availability to be able to easily offload the admin pieces, which is how I can spend three hours training that admin, because that that was really my whole role before I started documenting what do I do every day. And I looked at it and I'm like it just clicked and I'm like Jamie's right, I'm just the admin. So I've been able to now hand off all of those tasks and now I have a really great place where I have kind of like a crossroads before me, right or like a fork in the road, where I can either start to really go hard on the second team or I can use my time to build other infrastructural pieces for the business.

Wize Claudia:

Yeah.

Jake Douglas:

Or a combination of both of those things structural pieces for the business or a combination of both of those things. My first team still has capacity because we hired ahead so fast Wize we kept hitting those capacity barriers. the wife Yeah, so we change ahead and now that the team all has a little bit of experience, their capacity has grown because they work faster, they understand all the processes and we had hired out a little bit beyond what we needed, just because we felt like we were gonna keep hitting that roadblock. They don't have an assistant client manager yet, which would be the next hire for that team

Jake Douglas:

But before, where I was sitting, I your was like there's no way I can get one team to generate a million dollars in revenue. And now, like after just being in Wise Elite and making just some of wife wife is a a Filipino changes, I can see a much clearer roadmap of how we can get there and what that will look like. And I expect we'll probably be there maybe with just in a handful of months if we turn up the marketing side. And that's just one team, and then from there, as I start to build a second team, that will add additional margin for more team members and and we have a really healthy financial state as well, which is good. So our EBITDA is still much higher than even what WISE suggests it should be, which means our team is still operating lean and we're still able to give out bonuses to the team and do some of those more exciting incentives like that.

Jake Douglas:

We're going to be doing our second to you annual team retreat, hopefully in the next few months, and usually I'll fly. Last time we did it in the Philippines. Most of our team members are there Wize also my wife's Filipino, so I have an advantage on the outsourcing in the Philippines side of things. So we did there, but I think this year we're going to try to do it in Singapore and fly everyone into Singapore and spend a week there together that sounds amazing.

Wize Claudia:

Yeah, I wanted to say that to you. It feels like this is a question I usually ask our Wize F actor Chat members and it's that you feel like there's a mindset shift once you started Wize? and ?

Jake Douglas:

Yes, definitely was. And again, it's one of those things that I feel like was like 80% there, and I know that it's going to constantly be changing, but there were still. You know, honestly, a lot of it is just taking action on the things that you know Right, just taking action on the things that you know right? So I wouldn't say that a ton of the things that I've encountered in Wize are life- changing in the sense that it wasn't like cognitively. I already knew it, because I've already listened to all the podcasts, I've been through all of your materials already right.

Wize Claudia:

So what sort of an advantage there?

Jake Douglas:

Yeah.

Jake Douglas:

So it wasn't the content that shocked me or surprised me, but it was in starting it and in the accountability of like we have the five non-negotiables that we do every day, including things that are just good for us, right?

Jake Douglas:

So 10 minutes of learning whether it's a book or a podcast, things like that that I was already doing because I love to learn but like, Fab5 minutes of exercise I was not really disciplined in that and I've been able to, you know, shed a little bit of weight and build up some strength Just by implementing discipline there and knowing that I'm going to go back to answer to the coaches the next week and even if they don't specifically ask us like, did you do all five things?

Jake Douglas:

But just knowing that I'm like, hey, I'm now to go, I'm going to show up with integrity and be able to say I did testimonials Fab5 and I did my exercise, helps, I did my learning, I worked on my business instead of in the business. So hitting those types of things has really, I think just shifted focus. Really, rather than necessarily even having to change the mindset, it's just now. I'm focused because I'm paying attention to those things, paying attention to my routines and making sure that I'm working in quad two instead of quad one and prioritizing things that are going to move the needle in the business things that are going to move the needle in the business.

Wize Claudia:

Sounds like you are working in a mindful way now. These things were probably from all the things that you've heard from the podcast and the testimonials of others. Actually, that also helps and have things in the back items of your brain but actually implementing, I feel like, has been such a game changer for you.

Jake Douglas:

Exactly, yeah. And I remember the first meeting that we had with Jamie and the group call. Wize walked away with a list a mile long of all the things that I needed to do, all the action items and Jamie's was a little overwhelming at first, I'll be honest. But thankfully Jamie was really clear and he just to work like here's the first thing you need to do. And he just gave me that first step. And revenue- I trusted him and I was like okay, do I need an admin? Now, you know, I thought like and the most, this one thing doesn't take that long, that one thing doesn't take that long.

Jake Douglas:

But when you put it all together, once Jamie I wrote out everything which is part of of the wise process, right, documenting everything you're doing and what quad it's in, when I did that activity, then I realized, oh, Jamie's right, you know, and to me, I just hadn't thought about the admin work because it's easy work, right, but I hadn't realized that it's consuming my whole days and so I'm not able to do revenue generating work and thankfully the team is doing that but I wasn't able to contribute and I'm the like, the top and the most skilled person right on managers team. I'm the leader, I should be the one who can do the hardest work and take on the biggest projects.

Jake Douglas:

And so I really had to just trust JB and I said, okay, I'm gonna hire an admin, even if it doesn't like, if I don't feel like there's a full 40 hours for them, I'm going to hire them full time and we are going to fill their work with every quad one thing that I shouldn't be doing. And so they're doing, you know, all of division seven, all of division six and even dabbling in some division three and and and to work. So getting into sales and marketing and really supporting the client managers not just me but our other client managers as well. And that admin came with a lot of experience working for another firm, so also her insight is really valuable as she looks at our processes and can offer suggestions on how to improve what we're doing as well so, yeah, super valuable.

Wize Claudia:

Yeah, you found yourself a gem as an admin, because then, when an admin, you bookkeeping- think that your work does not, um, does not contribute as much as a book, like a senior bookkeeper, but she's really doing a lot for you Wize Mentors the most important work is taking off the hat, the admin hat to off your head. So that's already.

Wize Claudia:

I wanted to ask another question, which it's very interesting to me because your your business is bookkeeping focused. So, as a bookkeeper, what's the one thing that you feel has been the most valuable that you've learned at Wize, or the thing that Wise mentors have shared that you feel that, as a bookkeeper, speaks directly at you?

Jake Douglas:

Yeah, I think probably the quote that stands out the most is Jamie always says to delegate like a demon. I just hold on to that quote because it's so easy for me to just step in and do work when it comes back my way, like it's something that maybe got missed in the quality checks, and I see it and I'm like, oh, that's not how I think this should be done. It's really easy for me to just be like I'm just going to do it because it'll take 10 minutes and then I can get it off my to-do list. But I think already I've just realized how short-sighted that is.

Jake Douglas:

And with the way that Jamie challenges us as a bookkeeper, I think it's so important that we continue to train our staff especially because our work is so recurring, like every month it's the same work that gets done, and if you don't train someone the first time, it's going to happen again the next month and the impact of that in a negative way is compounded Every month you lose efficiency in a negative way is compounded every month you lose efficiency. That every month you don't train that person to do it the right way. And so I've really had to be diligent, especially as I focus tax, on quad two activities, to say, I'm going to take the extra time and even if it means that I email the client and let them know we need to, you know we won't get this thing to them today. It might be tomorrow or the next day, and mostly because of time zone differences, right? So I have to then connect with someone in a different time zone or record a video or something of how to fix it and then let them do the work of fixing it and then send it back to me corrected so I can get it to the client.

Jake Douglas:

So taking the time to do that is tax, the best thing that we can do, because it's not only quad two. So it's going to help move the whole business forward when we do it the right way. But then I'm investing in my team and I think it's really important to invest in the team's growth, not just for the firm but for the team members and I know Jamie really is a big advocate of that and everyone on the wise team. And I think with bookkeeping it's probably the easiest to do but maybe sometimes it's the most neglected because I have other friends that advancement, own accounting eventually, tax and bookkeeping firms.

Jake Douglas:

I have other friends that own accounting, tax and bookkeeping firms and they're always complaining about just their inability to find quality bookkeepers yeah, and what I decided a long time ago, but that's really paying dividends now, as I get the benefit of of everything I'm learning from wise, is that I'm going to find bookkeepers, but I'm going to build the best bookkeepers. So I really want to focus on making sure that anyone who works for Church Finance Pros is going to leave in a better place than they came right, so they should be able to step into any job with career advancement and eventually they will write someone.

Jake Douglas:

Most people are not going to spend their whole life at least in these generations in one career with one company right, with so much opportunity available, so I'm always thinking about how can I maximize the opportunity for my team, even if it's not with Church Finance Pros?

Jake Douglas:

And I really want to invest in the team that way, and it already pays dividends to the firm as well, as long as they're with us. But I need to make sure that that's my long- term vision for them Wize as well. And even sometimes they don't not asking for it. Some of you almost have to sometimes force people to for their own good, so I've really been challenging the team to do that, but I think it's well. Some of that applicable Wize Factor Chat much more that can be done in bookkeeping because of the recurring nature of our work, and the consistency of working within a niche for us has been really extraordinary, because our processes are really well systematized and really well defined and they apply to every single client. So, there's very little variability, which means if someone's doing something wrong in one place, they're doing it wrong in another place, and so one taking the time to make that one little change or that one little training video can make a difference in like exponential ways down the road.

Wize Claudia:

And um, from what you were saying before about um people leaving your business, um being having something else than they came with, that's true leadership, actually, and the huge part of what we teach and what we preach at wise is he's that leadership. It's probably a 70% of everything you do. Otherwise, people will go unmotivated and won't do work as as excited as you would be for them to complete all this work. So it's fantastic that you have that approach. That's why the, the wise factor, the wise factor Chad was created because we really love to talk and sit down with firm owners who understand the whole DNA of what we are and what we want to project.

Jake Douglas:

Yeah, it's really interesting that you bring up the leadership piece, because that was one of the things that really drew me to Wize 'cause I've done other programs as well, like, but almost all of them are so sales and marketing focused, right, so I'll just get more clients, get more clients. And wise has this really I don't mean this offensively like unsexy appeal to it, where it's like it's not just about the shiny object, right, there's real depth to it. t

Jake Douglas:

So when I was on my initial call with Jamie, just learning about what Mentoring could look like, brought up leadership and I was like I already feel like I'm a good leader and, you know, I feel like I have some good mindsets there. I've done a lot of work on my own in that regard but even as I waited before I joined the program, like that was constantly at the back of my mind. I'm like maybe this is the year I need to really focus on growing in my leadership and kind of realizing like I shouldn't just assume that I've arrived. I really I'm like, especially if I've got these capacity issues, I want to make sure the team is growing and I'm really able to get the most out of them. I'm like leadership issues I want to make sure the team is growing and I'm really able to get the most out of them. I'm like leadership is really the key to that.

Jake Douglas:

It's not about that, all the incoming leads and client retention, those are all all small parts, but leadership, like you I like, it's really where it's at, and so I really I appreciate that mindset about Wize and that was the reason when it came down to it. If you, if I had to say there's thing that in that or me to sign up and go into this, this mentorship, uh was just I wanted to be a better leader and I knew Wize could get me there. I knew Jamie could help me with that and, of course, now that I've met all the others, like, the whole team is phenomenal and each person pours in a little bit into the type of leader I'm becoming.

Wize Claudia:

Wow and really thank you so much for sharing that, because I feel like that's such a powerful lesson also for us. Like to know that you feel like that. It's amazing. That's part of why we do what we do. Yeah, I wanted to ask one more question, Jake, and it's related to you. Like the Jake on 2020, 2021, that was starting to move the needle forward, but not quite, because he didn't know the things that he knows today. What would you say to that Jake If you could, if you run into him down the street, what could you say to him?

Jake Douglas:

I should have gotten mentorship faster. That is. That's probably the thing. I always had a really strong work ethic, but that is sometimes a curse because then it just ends up that I do things on my own If something's not done, I'm just going to get it done. w

Jake Douglas:

And I think I really needed to spend more time being strategic back then and really investing in the things that matter the most. Some of those are personal things Factor, and all sacrifices I made along the way, and you know time with my family and in hobbies and things that I've enjoyed that I've since been able to get back as I've made some of these changes. But I wish that there were not those seasons that I missed out on certain things, and so I would say, like, invest in the things that are going to really make the difference. And one of those things is just having people around you that are on the same journey and ahead of you on that journey, and if you can do that, it will cut down the growth time and I think the results will show that, like life satisfaction will be much, much higher. So that's what I wish I could tell myself three years ago.

Wize Claudia:

Awesome advice, love every part of it, and I feel like that's one of the things that I've run into while talking to other firm owners and the Wize Factor All of them wish to know about this sooner, so they could spend more time with family and loved ones.

Jake Douglas:

Exactly. a

Wize Claudia:

That's a huge part of building business, but probably choose, when you want to be out of the business, to not miss life events that are that you cannot postpone, and that life is now. So that's a great lesson for everyone, and anyone who listens to this will relate. There are many busy accountants and bookkeepers out there, so I really love to send them this message so they know that it's not you're not forced to do this until you die. There's a way.

Jake Douglas:

Exactly, there is a way.

Wize Claudia:

There's hope, yeah.

Jake Douglas:

And I mean where we're at as a company, like I live comfortably already from a financial perspective, like I have more than what I need and we just have one small team right? So there is so much more and it's mind-blowing to me to think that it's possible that I could continue to grow even my own financial situation and expand that without having to work more.

Jake Douglas:

Yeah, right, and like just on a personal note regarding like being able to spend time with family and things like that like just two days ago, my mom was diagnosed with terminal cancer, so I like right now our family's in a very raw place and so to be able to know that like in my team is going to have everything in order and if I need to pull the brakes on like building my second team for a little bit, for a season, just to help take care of my mom, I can do that.

Jake Douglas:

Wow. And I don't know a lot of people who are in a place in their firm that they can say I'm going to take an extended time period off. Yeah, of course, I love working and I want to like it excites me to keep building and things like that, but for a season. If I need to take that time off, I know my team can handle everything and that our whole structure is there because I'm not essential to the business anymore and that, like just knowing that has given me so much peace, as we just, you know, await more test results and this and that and figuring out treatment plans and all that. I'm like I don't have to stress about if I need to take time off to be with my family or to support my kids when they're feeling upset about their grandma or things like that. So I cannot stress how important that is to create that flexibility by following the wise way.

Wize Claudia:

Yeah, and you realise once these things sadly happen, that that's what matters, that's where you need to be, and the fact that you're now being able to do this, it's so amazing, so happy for you that you have the ability to tend to your mom, tend to your family in a moment like this. So we hope that she gets well soon.

Jake Douglas:

Yeah, thank you.

Wize Claudia:

Yeah. Well, I'm so excited about this Wize Factor Chat. I think it turned out so well, really loved our conversation, and I thank you so much for this Wize Factor Chat. I think it turned out so well, really loved our conversation, and I thank you so much for your time and all your course that I'm sure many firm owners will will um relate to, and I will see you soon okay, I look forward to it.

Jake Douglas:

Thanks, Claudia.

Jake Douglas:

Thanks for tuning in. If you like this, please remember to subscribe and leave us a five-star review For more practical wise tips on how to build a business that runs without you. Head over to wizementoring. com/ podcast to download a free copy of the Accountant's 20-Hour Workweek Playbook. We've included a link in the show notes below. See you in the next episode.