Episode 69: Wize Factor Chat: Luke Gheen - Gheen & Co.

In this week's episode of The Wize Guys Podcast, we have the privilege of sitting down with business owner, Luke Gheen of Gheen & Co. who has been on a remarkable journey since 2010. Get ready to hear about the ups and downs, the challenges, and the triumphs as he shares his rollercoaster ride to success.

Join us as we explore the struggles he faced with high staff turnover and a lack of structure, leading to countless sleepless nights and endless work hours. But fear not! This story takes a turn when he discovered the transformative power of the Wize Mentoring program. Learn how this program shifted his mindset and provided effective solutions to these once seemingly insurmountable woes.

Tune in now to gain valuable insights from a seasoned entrepreneur who has walked the path of challenges and emerged stronger, wiser, and more successful than ever.  Let's dive in!

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Transcript

Luke Gheen: 0:01

You've got to master leading yourself. So that's about self-discipline, that's about experience, that's about controlling your feelings. So you've got to lead yourself.

Wize Mentoring: 0:14

From Wize Mentoring is The Wize Guys Podcast, a show about accounting and bookkeeping practice owners and the many stories, lessons and tips from their experience of transitioning from a time-pull practice to a business that runs without them. I hope you enjoy and subscribe.

Wize Claudia: 0:35

So thank you, Look, for making it to our meeting. As I was telling you, we think you are a golden member at Wwise, which we highly appreciate you engaging with everything, going to every class, being super cool with our mentors. I wanted to talk to you a little bit about your Wwise journey and everything, and we want to start from the top, so I wanted to know when did your business start? Which year? How long ago?

Luke Gheen: 1:03

I believe it was September or October of 2021, I think. So it's been more than a year, so I'm pretty sure that's right.

Wize Claudia: 1:14

Yeah, but when you start with Wwise.

Luke Gheen: 1:16

Right, I think, for fall of 2021, so it's been more than a year.

Wize Claudia: 1:19

Nice, you've been quite for quite a long time, and when did you start your firm?

Luke Gheen: 1:25

2010. Really full time with it mid-2011.

Wize Claudia: 1:29

Okay, super, and I know you've accomplished a lot since you started your firm and since you started your WizeG rowth journey. But before Wize, I wanted to ask you if there was something keeping you up at night regarding your business or challenges that you were facing with your business before you found Wwise.

Luke Gheen: 1:48

Yeah, we did experience strong growth and we had a I heard a marketing firm from the very beginning, and so the lead generation was always there, and so over the years, we were just trying to figure out how to make more of the leads and how to provide more services.

Luke Gheen: 2:02

Back in 2016, it was, I think we started doing service levels and trying to do advisory just go beyond the compliance work and so that was successful, and so our fees were going up, the number of staff members were going up, we were making money, but I think we could never figure out the right staffing structure. That was probably the biggest pain point. So I'd have staff come and go, I have clients come and go, and so what we found in 2018 to 2017 to 2020 is probably the peak, where we were signing up hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of business every year and we were losing hundreds of thousands of dollars of business every year. So there was net growth, but there's a ton of churning, and so we weren't able to hang on to a lot of the clients we signed up, and I think a lot of it was the staffing structure problem.

Wize Claudia: 2:48

Okay, got it. So there was basically lots of work but not lots of staff to manage it. Was it taking a toll on you, like, were you working long hours?

Luke Gheen: 2:58

I was. I mean, I'm not a workaholic, so I mean I just at some point I refused to keep going. But I think my frustration level was just at an all time high to where I didn't really want to do it anymore. You know, when I called Jamie and then got in touch with Tim and everything, I mean it was kind of helpful to hear their stories because some of what Jamie said was how I was feeling right then and because I was at the point where it's like, you know, I just kind of wanted to burn it down. You know I had tried and tried and tried to do it right.

Luke Gheen: 3:25

I think the biggest thing for me personally was that anytime I had a key staff member leave, my whole life got turned upside down and also not to do their job, you know, because there wasn't enough redundancy and weren't structured right. I had, and still have, some wonderful staff people who I want to leave. But like I thought I can't live like this, I can't make any plans. You know, as soon as something goes sideways, everything changes for me and then I'm like right back in it. So I was pretty frustrated and desperate.

Wize Claudia: 3:52

I'm happy that that's not how you are today and that Jamie's story resonated with you because, yeah, he was at this point very much like that was rock bottom for him.

Luke Gheen: 4:03

So, yeah, and it's kind of sad because you know a lot of things were going right and but when, as a leader, you get just so frustrated to where it's like this isn't working, like it's making money but it's not, start to weigh the pros and cons of whether it's even worth it, from a family standpoint.

Luke Gheen: 4:20

It's like I'm not in it just to make money and I want to enjoy it so a lot of what Jamie said really resonated with me and, of course, once I got into it with Tim, same thing, I mean, and it helped me realize I'm not the only one. You know, other people have faced this and have done things, and I felt hopeful.

Wize Claudia: 4:37

Yeah, that's amazing. I'm glad you enjoyed like enrolling with Tim and then Jamie, like it's all about that. It's not only connecting with people who know about things, it's also connecting on a personal level, which is something that I wanted to ask you like do you feel like there was a mindset shift since you started your wife's journey? Because of course, there was this tapping structure, shit, but in terms of mindset, lifestyle, do you feel like you envision different things?

Luke Gheen: 5:05

I was never like a compliance based firm just trying to turn out tons of returns. I mean, I delegated, I had teams, I was doing a lot of things right. So in terms of mindset, I already really was trying to do what wise had. I just wasn't all the way there, you know, and I needed their advice to get there. So it's not that my mind change, it's just that I felt like I found an answer to what was lacking. It's not like I believed in the way I was doing it and then had to shift it. It was more that I was already trying to do what they did. But unless I want to do another 10 years of trial and error, I need to take their advice. I think mainly what I felt is that I'm not alone and that people understand and that they're willing to give advice and I'm willing to take it and do whatever they tell me. I felt hopeful.

Wize Claudia: 5:47

Okay, yeah, that makes perfect sense. Actually, what you mentioned before that you found more people who thought like you- yeah, and just who had gotten you a better job than I had.

Luke Gheen: 5:57

And so, hey, you know that's fine with me, Like I'm loved to take advice. So I felt like, hey, if they did it, I can do it too, and for me it's either that or just get out of it and find something else to do.

Wize Claudia: 6:09

Okay. So when you were stuck in this mentality of probably getting out or continuing, like in that kind of point, do you feel like there was an advice that you would have loved to hear or that you could give today to someone who isn't at that point wanting to stop, like what would be the one advice that you would give to them?

Luke Gheen: 6:30

I would tell them that there is hope, that if you're willing to take advice and do what people tell you, that the wise mentoring system can get you there. And it's not like an instant fix. Like any real change takes time, and so you have to be patient and you have to still try it. You know different things, but there is hope, and so, rather than just sell what you have and move on, you know why not fix it into something that's going to be better for you and for the staff long term? So I think there's reasons not to give up. I think when we get into that position where we're so frustrated and so stuck, it's easy, like I was starting to believe, even if you don't say it out loud, like I'm the only one who knows how hard this is, I'm the only one you know who has been this stuck, and then when you realize you're not, it's like, well, okay, if other people can figure it out, then I can too.

Wize Claudia: 7:16

That's great, because that's brave actually to think that you could not just get out of it and just sell it and just toss it to the trash, basically because many people just quit. And I think it's very worth it, like, even if you want to sell it in the future, sell something that is worthy. That's at least how I see it.

Luke Gheen: 7:35

Right, get something out of all the years you put into it, instead of just having it feel like a big colossal failure or something that you look back on. Well, I mean, that's not satisfying and I have a lot of good employees who I want them to have a future to, and so it's not just for my sake. It means for their sake, for the client's sake, that if there is a path forward in a different way why, you know why not try that?

Wize Claudia: 7:58

Yeah, absolutely, I agree with you. So I wanted to ask you more on a personal level. Do you have any hobbies or activities that you enjoy doing?

Luke Gheen: 8:08

Oh yeah, I mean I like to work out, although I don't do it as much as I showed or used to. I've studied the Bible a lot. I do the. You know I like theology. I'm into rowing, so I'm kind of like an on-water and indoor rower. That's part of my workout routine, so that's fun for me. I play the piano and it's kind of something that my wife does and I've done for a long time, so I enjoy that.

Wize Claudia: 8:32

You both play the piano.

Luke Gheen: 8:33

Yeah, she just started recently. I grew up taking lessons for many, many years and so it's something I've sort of resurrected as a hobby and remembered how much I like it. So, yeah, I try to do those things, but you know I got four kids so I don't have time to just pursue hobbies endlessly. So if I can stay in shape and do a few fun things, let's get in.

Wize Claudia: 8:56

Yeah, that's about it. That's your quota. Play the piano when I was younger. Yeah, I took classes and did it for two years, but I stopped and I am so mad at myself for stopping, but it was not interesting at that. It was like my teenager phase, so it wasn't that cool at that time, but I would love to take it. So you might inspire me.

Luke Gheen: 9:19

I mean, my wife just picked it up and she's well into adulthood, so you can always do it later and probably you do a better job than when you were a teenager. Anyway, and it's like anything else. You just have to go to a time and get over the hump of it being so hard. Then it's really great.

Wize Claudia: 9:35

Yeah, I absolutely love it and it was a great time. But, as you were saying, I probably would be better now than then. I wasn't paying much attention.

Luke Gheen: 9:45

I understand it's hard to pay attention to anything. As a teen. It's certainly hard to like work towards something.

Wize Claudia: 9:51

And I'm like today. I'm like, why did I quit? But when you are a teenager, you're doing many things like I was also on sports and doing school and everything. So probably that wasn't it, but I would love to retake.

Luke Gheen: 10:06

Yeah, I got to the point where I wanted to quit too. My parents just said no, so I didn't quit, and now I'm grateful.

Wize Claudia: 10:13

Yeah, my parents said no as well, but they were like we cannot force you to go, so you do SU.

Luke Gheen: 10:20

Otherwise you could blame them. Yeah, exactly.

Wize Claudia: 10:23

Let's do that. So I wanted to ask you a last question. Is there anything that you feel like we could be doing for you, like to serve you better, any feedback, anything that you would like to share with us?

Luke Gheen: 10:34

I mean, I didn't come to this with any complaints. I mean I got my meeting with Tim coming up, so I just have to get ready for that. I don't know when I've arrived. You know what I mean. Like I don't know when. Have I made all the changes? Because, you know, there's always stuff to work on. There's always and I know some of the guys and ladies have, like they do wise mentoring for a couple of years and then they're tutoring other people and mentoring other people, and I think so.

Luke Gheen: 10:55

What's the point at which you've arrived? Probably when I'm backed out of my firm and I'm running it more as an executive. I'm still on that path. I don't know what progress I should expect in the next 12 months, I guess.

Wize Claudia: 11:06

Well, I'd say Tim used to be a Wize member, so that's a great thing to look up to. When you discover that, this rule of 33% which I didn't know it was called like that, but I was doing it my whole life, meeting people who I look up to and then found other people who I could teach something to, which was exciting. If that's not your route probably yeah, withdrawing from the business how do you see having a business that runs without you? Does that excite you? I scarce you. Do you look forward to that?

Luke Gheen: 11:37

Oh yeah, that's what I've been trying to get to. I just haven't been able to get to it. I want that. I mean I like running the business and that's why I got into the business. I didn't get into it because I desperately want to be a technician and do all the work. I mean I can do the work and all that, but I like seeing the business grow and if I'm in the business it's not going to do as well. So I definitely want to own it as an investor and I feel like, especially the older I get, I feel like I've put in my time to be able to reap some years back, I guess, where it's not such a struggle. So, yeah, it doesn't scare me in the slightest.

Wize Claudia: 12:11

That's nice, because it's the opposite you are keen to get there.

Luke Gheen: 12:15

Yeah, I guess not everybody is. I was like does it scare some people to get to that point?

Wize Claudia: 12:19

Yeah, basically they think that business is their baby so they wouldn't see the business running without them actually like without them. For example, jamie, I think he works a day in his business there's people who aren't very comfortable with not being on their chairs.

Luke Gheen: 12:34

Well, I'm not one of them.

Wize Claudia: 12:35

There. That's how I talked about mindset shift. So you have to build a boat that you feel can go on for miles and miles without thinking it will drown, basically. So there's a lot of inner work as well.

Luke Gheen: 12:51

Yeah, I'm ready for that to happen. And I did the wise talent. That was another huge thing for me, as I learned what the hiring process should be. So not only did I hire people through that, but I learned the process, which is what they try to teach you. And then I just hired a couple more people using that process just in the last month. So that's been one huge thing to equip me, because the people I would have hired before because of the new process I learned that weeded out a lot of those people, and so that's a tremendous skill. I got Manitow, I got the test.

Luke Gheen: 13:21

I do everything exactly how they do it, and I noticed it and eliminated a lot of people along the way that I would have hired. So the people I'm hiring are higher quality, which is a huge step towards independence. So, yeah, I'm on my way towards it. I'm not scared of it at all. I want that. I have plenty I can do and in my business it doesn't define me, it's not like an eco thing for me.

Wize Claudia: 13:42

It's just that's important. I think that's one huge step because of what I was saying and I wanted to ask you one last question, I promise, but this is so interesting that you just said we're following the right process. Now, when you look back and see on your previous process and some staff that that you said that you were having some churn and everything people were quitting, like, how do you feel that was one main takeaway that you felt like you were doing wrong, and now you've nailed it.

Luke Gheen: 14:12

I mean I can give you more than one. I mean I wasn't checking references. I mean that's you? I mean like that's, we did people out. There's a lot of people who I kind of wanted to hire and they just flat out wouldn't give me references. They wouldn't, or the ones that gave me were worthless, and that's a huge red flag. And some of the people I've hired, had I checked their references, I think I never would have hired them.

Luke Gheen: 14:31

And so taking tests, taking competency tests, that has weeded out a lot of people. I got a person that was. I mean we were so interested in hiring her that she actually flew out to New York where I am, did an all day in person interview, all that stuff, like we were ready to hire her, but that was the one thing left which she knew that she had to do, and when it came down to it she just refused to take the tests and so we didn't hire her and you know she made up excuses about this and that, but she just kind of she wouldn't do it and like it's a non-negotiable. So I mean just those two things alone have weeded out a lot of people. And just having a process for people to fill out an application which a lot of people like refuse to do that, so it's like bye, you know.

Wize Claudia: 15:12

I think that's just as principle and essential to hire someone like refusing to fill out something. That's probably a red flag in terms of transparency.

Luke Gheen: 15:22

Yeah, it's like they're too good to do it. I mean, that's kind of the attitude like I don't have to do that, just give me a call. It's like, no, I'm not going to call you. I learned how to conduct interviews better. I mean, I thought I was pretty good at it but I had to change a lot. So yeah, having a rigid process where you make people jump through a lot of hoops and, as you know, tim and others have told me it's like you're looking for reasons not to hire people.

Luke Gheen: 15:44

That's how I view it now is if I hire the person who doesn't give me any reasons not to. So that's been a big skill set shift and had to be fundamental, because I think we were a little bit afraid to get rid of people who needed to go because we didn't have a good way of replacing them when there was already too much work. So that's just an example of something that has been wonderful.

Wize Claudia: 16:04

Oh, I'm so glad to hear that, because actually that's how you get to withdraw from divisions. So basically it's like forget being client focused, be team focused, like be a leader first and then a client manager. That's wholesome for me.

Luke Gheen: 16:22

Yeah, that's great. So yeah, we're continuing on with Wise and I have a feeling that in a year I will have largely withdrawn from the business, and you know, of course it's good. I mean, I wouldn't have gotten this to this point on my own. I probably would have just either endured and just you know the options are and I talked to a lot of CPAs like this shrink it down, like get rid of staff, get rid of clients, like just shrink it down to something you can handle on your own with maybe your favorite staff person and probably make just as much money without the headache. That's kind of like the normal escape fantasy, and I had that too. Or build it up to the point where it's big enough, to where it doesn't need you, but that's a lot harder to do.

Luke Gheen: 17:00

You know, shrinking it down feels like a cow. I don't really want to do that, so I'm really happy to have clarity on how to grow.

Wize Claudia: 17:08

Yeah, and slowly but surely. So you're on track and thank you so much for sharing all of this with me. This is so valuable your journey, and anything that we can help, we're happy to help.

Wize Mentoring: 17:22

Thanks for tuning in. If you liked this episode, please remember to subscribe and leave us a five-star review. For more practical Wize tips on how to build a business that runs without you, head over to wizementoring. com/ podcast to download a free copy of the accountants 20 hour workweek playbook. We've included a link in the show notes below. See you on the next episode!