Episode 103: Wize Factor Chat: Thomas Sphabmixay - TMS Financials

Every family business has its own saga, and today we're peeling back the curtain on one such tale with Thomas!

This week's episode of The Wize Guys Podcast presents another special edition of WizeFactor Chat with Thomas Sphabmixay, one of the Wize Mentors and the General Manager of TMS Financials.

As a child who grew up amidst the hustle of his parents' accounting firm, Thomas transformed from a playful kid under the desks to a crucial cog within the gears of the company. His story is a vibrant tapestry woven with the threads of mentorship, business automation, and personal growth. Thomas's narrative will not only tug at your heartstrings but also arm you with insights into how mentorship can propel you from entrepreneurial struggles to achievements.

Embark on a revealing journey with us as we discuss the nuances of fostering a business that thrives on autonomy, allowing for the elusive work-life balance many entrepreneurs crave. Thomas, on the brink of fatherhood, candidly shares how his personal principles seamlessly blend with his professional ethos, providing a blueprint for success that respects both boardroom ambitions and the bassinet. His experiences underscore the transformative power of guidance in business, the importance of leadership, and the intricate dance of maintaining humility amidst success. Prepare to be inspired and educated in equal measure as we unravel the wisdom behind Wize Mentoring and the life of a man living the very lessons he teaches.

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Transcript

Wize Mentoring: 0:02

From Wize Mentoring is The Wize Guys Podcast, a show about accounting and bookkeeping practice owners and the many stories, lessons, and tips from their experience of transitioning from a time- poor practice to a business that runs without them. I hope you enjoy and subscribe!

Wize Claudia: 0:23

Hi, Thomas, thank you again for being with me here today. Actually, this is a mentor's edition, so it's special. For those who don't know Thomas, he's actually a Wize Mentor, apart from being a practice owner and being in his own practice, and so we wanted to talk about that, because, before being a mentor, he started as a member, just like every other member but became someone special to our team. So I wanted to go through that story. Basically, let's start from the beginning if you are happy to do it. Some backstory when did the business start? Where did the business start? How did it start?

Thomas Sphabmixay: 1:02

Well, the firm started in 1993. So roughly about 31 years ago. It started with my parents. They have a bit of an interesting backstory. They immigrated from Laos. They were actually in a refugee camp for about six or nine years of their life. So the reason for that was because they were just holding out for Australia. You could go to America, you could go to France, but they waited in that refugee camp for Australia and I guess we all have to thank grandpa for making the right choice.

Thomas Sphabmixay: 1:34

But that brought a lot of challenges. They couldn't speak English. They were put into years 11 and 12. But like most stories of immigrants, they wanted to make their way through Australia, and with a lot of help and support they studied accounting despite not knowing much English, they just had to write, memorize textbooks, and make their way through examinations and got their tax agents and practicing licenses and began their firm in 1993. You know, since then it's been a long journey. They didn't have a background in business. They knew the trade of accounting but they didn't have a background in business. They didn't necessarily have mentorship and guidance. So throughout my whole life, I would just see them work really, really hard. Actually I wouldn't see them much at all. To be honest, if I wanted to see them, I had to go and hang out at the office, right?

Wize Claudia: 2:27

So that was your playground, with playing with staples and pens and paper?

Thomas Sphabmixay: 2:34

Yeah, just staying under their desk playing on my gameb oy.

Wize Claudia: 2:36

So I was a bit of a spoiled kid, but that was my world.

Thomas Sphabmixay: 2:41

Accounting is, to me, a second home kid, but that was my world. Accounting is, to me, a second home and I got to see how hard they work throughout the years and, if anything, it put me off of the accounting industry. So it wasn't until much later, and having done an accounting degree, having had exposure to running businesses on my own, when I looked at TMS I saw that there was actually a lot that could be done there, but I didn't know what it was and I guess we'll go to that next part. And that's where we met Wize and we met Ed.

Wize Claudia: 3:14

Wow. So yeah, that's where I wanted to go. Which year did you come into the equation?

Thomas Sphabmixay: 3:19

Oh, to be honest, I've always been part of the TMS equation when I was nine years old, I was doing classes and doing coding reports.

Wize Claudia: 3:28

And?

Thomas Sphabmixay: 3:28

If I finish a whole box of coding reports, that's 10 bucks. So if I finish five boxes I get 50 bucks, and I had $50 from red envelopes so I could buy Halo 1 on Xbox.

Wize Mentoring: 3:40

That's awesome.

Thomas Sphabmixay: 3:41

You know it's always been in and out. I've always just been part of that trade. But officially I came into this after university in 2017. Just started as an administrator, just helping out in the office. But it's usually from those positions that you see that there are a lot of areas that could be improved. But I didn't have the knowledge. So I was at an impasse either I leave the firm and go work for another firm to get ideas, then come back to TMS, or there had to be another solution, and that was the solution. We went looking for a mentor and we found Ed. You know I looked at a lot of different mentors, but well, I've always heard of his name growing up. He actually came to visit our first office in Cabramatta and one of the comments my parents told me that he said to us was you overcapitalized on this office. I didn't understand what that meant, but my parents explained it to me. You put a lot of furniture and fittings and you've got nice computers.

Wize Claudia: 4:47

So you had really nice computers there.

Thomas Sphabmixay: 4:49

However, which way it was in 1993, right? So I've always heard of his name growing up. He's always had a reputation for being a business person and not a technician, and that was a controversial path to take back then. But you look at where it is today. Channanela is where it is and it's had 20 offices and 160 staff and TMS was really just a team of technicians running a flat model when it was time to actually learn from a mentor. I think it made a lot of sense that we hit it up and I had a chance to speak to him for the first time after hearing his name, you know since I was a kid and I knew this was the person that had to teach me how to be a business person and yeah, so I have to really thank him and thank my parents for, you know, working together to give me this opportunity. So that's amazing.

Wize Claudia: 5:43

And actually, now that you mentioned, that my parents, for you know, working together to give me this opportunity. So that's A ctually, now that you mentioned that, my next question is that it had to do a lot with the reason that you became a mentor years later. So I wanted to get into that. So you went from being part of the firm, being in the firm, seeing the mistakes your parents were making, from being inspired by that, getting a mentor, which is what most of our wise mentors have done as well. Now you're here, a mentor. What inspired you? How did you start your mentoring journey as well?

Thomas Sphabmixay: 6:19

Sure, when we started working with Ed, I guess there were areas where he was happy with the way we implemented things, impressed with aspects where we were willing to innovate and challenge ourselves, and saw that we had a bit of tenacity in TMS to implement things. Before I became a mentor, he would just throw inquiries that he was getting from other accounting firms through to me to answer and just test me. I guess you know this person's asking me about practice ignition. Do you mind talking to them on the phone about it? Oh, this person's asking me about carbon. Do you mind talking to them about it? So I guess through those little moments it was him being a mentor and building me up to be someone that could actually help others properly within WISE. You know thinking about how much effort and how much wisdom he has given to TMS. You know we have a fully running team. It's running remotely. We're averaging about one to two inquiries from our marketing per day and by May it should be about four or five per day. But even before we did the marketing, how he helped build up and advise us in structuring our teams and roles was always just to hold and his advice off and trying to grow and add levels, get the foundation right, otherwise everything's going to go crumbling down. And even now, five years later, under Ed's mentorship, his lessons are all playing out.

Thomas Sphabmixay: 7:57

I really respect how much he and appreciate how much he has helped us, and I also appreciate the fact that when you teach other people, you're forced to distill these ideas and lessons that you have and explain it in a simple way to people, and sometimes people don't understand things the way you've heard it and you understood it, so you have to rephrase it. You have to change the way it's communicated and that's something that I have to do daily with my own staff communicated and that's something that I have to do daily with my own staff. And when I get to work with firm owners and get them to understand those very same concepts, it makes me feel rewarded. It feels rewarding when I can see it doesn't matter if it's an accountant or an administrator who understands the concepts and then performs their role better, or it be an owner or a shareholder who understands these concepts and then are able to get more out of their business. I feel satisfied where I can share knowledge and then people get it and then they do something with it. I guess it's just part of my character or personality that I enjoy doing so.

Thomas Sphabmixay: 8:59

Joining Wize Mentoring has been, it felt, really natural to me. Teaching people doesn't feel unnatural or uncomfortable to me and, if anything, what I see and practice coaching and mentoring other firms, in turn, makes me a better general manager for my own team and mentor and guide my team the same way I would mentor another owner that we're working with. So a lot of reasons, but mainly it's a love for teaching.

Thomas Sphabmixay: 9:29

When Ed talks about what an end goal looks like in a firm or a business, what happens when you're past being a senior accountant or a senior client manager? What happens when you're past becoming a chief technical officer or a senior client manager? What happens when you're past becoming a chief technical officer or a chief executive officer At the very end of it is being a chairman of the firm. And what is the role of a chairman? It's partly it's telling the CEO to pull their head in at times, but it's really to mentor and guide the firm. So to me, I feel like this is the most valuable skill to practice, and you know any wise firms out there or firm owners, who feel like they have something to teach and have a passion for it should consider joining and becoming a wise mentor as well.

Wize Claudia: 10:15

Yeah, I love that you said that because I was actually going to ask you. So there was this Thomas who was little Thomas, who was seeing their, their stressed parents working a lot, putting so many hours doing only technical stuff, being grinders, not using their firm to the fullest, basically. So what would you say to Thomas, who was in the business as well, seeing everything happening? Because there are many Thomas out there that do not realize that they're in a position that they probably need to change. What would you say to them? What would an advice be?

Thomas Sphabmixay: 10:54

Just the shortest advice I could give is to find a mentor. Like, stop stumbling through the dark by yourself. It's not that you don't have the skills or you don't have the brains or you don't have the character for it, it's just a mentor is a key. It's the key to a solution. You can be great. You can figure things out on your own and go online and learn things, but what a mentor does is they will tell you where you should be looking and what you should be working on because they know and have a taste of what it should be like. So my very simple advice is just to find a mentor. Yes, you're great, you're good, you're an entrepreneur. You can figure things out on your own, but stop stumbling through the dark.

Thomas Sphabmixay: 11:42

That's not how successful people operate. Successful people find help. They find experts. They find people who have traveled a path. For example, you could be the greatest fisherman, but if you go to an area you never fished before, you're not going to have success. You're going to have trial and error. You might have a good sense about where you should fish, but that's not going to compare to the level of success you would have if you were to say, hire a charter to take you around and show you. That's exactly what I would say to little Thomas find a teacher. I did find a teacher, but if I had to say something, to find a teacher earlier, find a business teacher a lot earlier, yeah, so you could practice it.

Wize Claudia: 12:26

That's what I would say to people yeah, from 1993 to 2017, they didn't find a teacher technically, so they spent all that time looking for answers, stressing out not being home to their kids, which is very, very you know it's not what it should be because you would love to spend time at home and seize every day. If you don't have kids, you know you have activities. You want to spend time doing other things. I wanted to ask you because you're a mentor now, so you see it from a different optic. So I usually ask in the Wize Factor Chat this question. But I wanted to ask you from a different optic. So I usually ask in the Wize Factor Chat this question. But I wanted to ask you from a different perspective.

Wize Claudia: 13:07

You work with many mentees, with many firm owners that you get with them coaching calls, monthly masterclasses all of these calls where you speak with them for private conversations most of them, where you speak with them force private conversations, most of them. But you talk to them about the phrase that we have at Wise that's a staple phrase that it's building a business that runs without you. How do you feel like they feel about this phrase? Are they excited? Are your mentees scared? Do they feel like it's too far away? Do they feel like they're almost there? How do they feel about that?

Thomas Sphabmixay: 13:47

Yeah, look, you've got people of various characters and stages within their firms. There's a broad spectrum of people. You've got people who understand that concept and, at the same time, they understand that they have to take risks and challenge themselves and do uncomfortable things in order to become a better leader and then implement what we're talking about. These individuals are rare and the ones that I work with that are like this are very enjoyable to work with because they travel very fast. One year compared to the next year is substantial growth, not just in terms of revenue, but in terms of their team, and how the dynamics of their structures change. They were what we would call operators, but you've got a subset of people who want to achieve it, but they can't deal with the discomforts of the changes and for those individuals, it's not like an intellectual challenge. They get it. They get that you have to build a business that runs without you, not for the only reason just taking holidays, or you know right? It's a necessity in the business to be able to scale up your time so that you can work on actually growing your business and training people, because how could they grow their business if they're trapped within the day-to-day burning fires that are happening? But deep down they have personal challenges. They have challenges with dealing with people's confrontations. They have challenges with technology. They have challenges with technology. They have challenges with marketing, whatever it might be. They're coming up against things that they can't quite wrap their personality around and what I have to do with them is I have to educate them that you have to work with people who are complementary to you. Look, if you can't do it, that's fine. You can only change so much. But in saying that, you have to find people for your firm that compliment you, and that's really difficult.

Thomas Sphabmixay: 15:50

Oftentimes this feeling of discomfort comes because they don't want to give up control over certain areas of their business. And then you have people who are afraid of the idea of withdrawing from their firm and they have a discomfort in leading and managing their firms. And I have to say that it's really hard for these individuals to be successful. It's really hard for these individuals to be really successful If you can't step outside of their comfort zone. If you can't see the intellectual reasoning for why you need to withdraw from their firm. Then those individuals sort of have to ask themselves that maybe running a business is not for me, because running a business is not for everyone. Okay, if it was easy, then everyone would do it and everyone would be millionaires. Okay, if it was easy, then everyone would do it and everyone would be millionaires.

Thomas Sphabmixay: 16:49

But if certain individuals aren't willing to challenge themselves, make changes, change who they are, and understand why they need to withdraw from their business so that they can go and focus on bigger things, then I have to say those mentees I've worked with in the past who fall into that category, their battles are with themselves and their battles are probably with the fact that maybe running a business is not for me.

Thomas Sphabmixay: 17:08

The sort of conclusions that we usually end up at after, say, a year and a half or a year of working with them is I think I'm just going to sell the business, I think I'm just going to get out of this and not handle it anymore. So what I have to say to these mentees is you kind of have to assess where you sit. Do you have the courage to go and start changing? Do you have the ability to just think and understand how these things need to be implemented? Then if you do, you're going to get a lot out of working with a mentor and if you understand the reasoning but you're just struggling personally, you'd still benefit because a mentor can bring the goodness out of you and I'd say the majority of the mentees I've worked with have fallen into those first two types. Now, honestly, there are very few people who come to us and they just can't be helped and they can only do so much.

Wize Claudia: 18:06

Yeah, and it's great that you bring this up. I love everything that you said about this because it's a huge topic and it will resonate. You're either one of these. You're either someone who's more open to delegating, more open to letting go of control, more open to building a business that runs without you because you are confident that it doesn't need you, that you've done everything in your hands for it not to need you, and, on the other hand, we will run into people who are probably realizing that they need to sell. But even if you need selling, you can tell me better than anyone, Thomas, because you've worked with firms that realize that they want to sell, that they want to bail, that they need to take some steps towards this. They cannot just get everything in a box, lock it down, and just go. There's a way to leave as well, a smart way to leave.

Thomas Sphabmixay: 19:03

Yeah, the problem is that they're so challenged that they probably couldn't even put the firm together, even with help to get it into a state where it could be sold. I mean, what I'm saying is there are some people who are just not cut out for it, and to be honest, they probably have the right reason to be scared of withdrawing from their firm. So I know it's tough. Ed said the very same words to me. If you took all the money in the world and distributed it equally amongst people, if you wait long enough, eventually money is going to end up piling up with the very same people. You look at everyone that is born. There are some people who have a natural sense for leadership, and then some people who don't really have a natural sense for leadership but they can learn it, and then some people are just not cut out for it.

Thomas Sphabmixay: 19:52

So what I have to say to individuals is, when you come to Wize and when you want to work with a mentor, what you're really asking for is you're asking to be taught leadership and you're looking for an environment where you can be in the presence and be part of a group of other great leaders and then learn from them. But you need to be humble. You need to be able to soak up what you're seeing. It's part of being a business owner. Of course, it means having confidence in yourself. But sometimes this confidence can come out in arrogance, and when you're arrogant and you don't actually have the tools or the knowledge to pull it off and not the leadership to pull it off, then it's very hard to help those individuals. But the majority of my experiences have been with people who want to change, and who want to do better. Why did they even come to wise in the first place?

Wize Claudia: 20:41

That's the WizeF actor. That's exactly what we talk about in this space because these are people who really come to us and they're extraordinary. They might be lost, but what they know is that they want and need to change for a better life, to withdraw from the business, even if they are not thinking about that and just want free weekends. You know they are welcome. I wanted to ask you our last question to close up this amazing conversation, and it is do you have any hobbies or do you have any activities that you like to dedicate your free time to? I know one that's going to happen soon and that's probably changing diapers, because, as we speak, Thomas is soon to have a baby, so that's probably going to be one of your favorite activities. Wonder or not?

Thomas Sphabmixay: 21:34

Yeah, I can't wait because, you know, actually when I was 15 my sister was born, so I had a bit of experience changing diapers then. But I can't even compare that because that's not being a parent.

Thomas Sphabmixay: 21:47

So you know, my husband's been shopping on his marketplace and say mom, no, that's, you know, part of being a Wize Mentor is freeing up my time. I don't work on my Thursdays and Fridays because I want to be a dad on my Thursdays and Fridays because I want to be a dad, and that's something that I saw in my mentees that if it was a common thing that they all wish they had done, which it was to have more time for their children. And so I thought why don't I just live that dream now? Why don't I just set my time up now and manage it better so that I can be a dad on Thursdays and Fridays? I'm not going to be that sort of person that goes oh I make the money, you know, you go, look after it. I actually want a good, decent role in my daughter's life, my daughter Naomi's life, and that's something that I have to balance with my hobbies, which was what you were asking for, and I'm an avid fisherman. I love fishing.

Wize Claudia: 22:44

I fish on the rock, why you brought up the fishing preference.

Thomas Sphabmixay: 22:47

I always draw a lot of analogies from these hobbies right it's fishing, and very recently it's been mountain biking.

Thomas Sphabmixay: 22:55

So just those two activities get me outdoors. It feels cool to load up your gear in the back of the car and go out, and travel for an hour and a half to a location, but that has to be changed because my priorities are now on being a father. I have to run my firm well. I have to make sure that it's ticking along. Leads are coming in, client managers are seeing them, and managing them, production managers are doing their job, accountants are processing through the work.

Thomas Sphabmixay: 23:23

The Fab Five KPI is ticking along, and that's really what gives me my freedom. If I can see the performance through the Fab5, then, like Ed and Jamie have talked about and shared numerous times, you could be on holiday, you could be on a yacht somewhere and if you can see your Fab5 at least it gives you a peace of mind that everything's running right. So that's my challenge as a wise mentor I have to live what I teach, and I'll know I'm living what I'm teaching If I can see through my Fab Five that the team is running well, and that will give me time to spend and dedicate to my family.

Wize Claudia: 24:05

Exactly, I love that, love all the hype, and I hope that when this is published Naomi is home safe. I'm not crying a lot, hope you can get some sleep, but it will be awesome it will be awesome. Thank you, Thomas, for taking the time to talk to me today. I enjoyed it thoroughly, so I will be seeing you around for sure. Hope everyone enjoys it.

Thomas Sphabmixay: 24:30

Thank you, Claudia, all right, see you around.

Wize Mentoring: 24:36

Thanks for tuning in. If you like this episode, please remember to subscribe and leave us a five-star review. Please remember to subscribe and leave us a five-star review For more practical Wize tips on how to build a business that runs without you. Head over to wizementoring. com/ podcast to download a free copy of The Accountant's 20-Hour Workweek Playbook. We've included a link in the show notes below. See you on the next episode!